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View Full Version : How Low Can We Go? The President Donald Trump Thread, I guess. :(



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Ryan
11-13-2016, 01:10 AM
I'm sure we'll be needing a place for all the lovely shit that's going to fall into our laps over the next four years, if any of us make it that long.

Homogenik
11-13-2016, 01:27 AM
that's the spirit!

http://thecount.com/wp-content/uploads/trump-poll-numbers-smiling.jpg

Perky Compson
11-13-2016, 01:33 AM
Jesus Christ that picture makes him look related to Martin Shkreli.

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/56b36c656e97c623048b4ca7-480/former-drug-executive-martin-shkreli-exits-the-us-federal-courthouse-in-the-brooklyn-borough-of-new-york-february-3-2016-reutersbrendan-mcdermid.jpg

Some people are born with such slappable faces.

Nick
11-13-2016, 01:35 AM
Fuck.

Mackerel
11-13-2016, 02:07 AM
I knew we had to do this at some point but I'm still sad.

Regina Phalange
11-13-2016, 02:30 AM
Maybe we should just call him Fuckface Von Clownstick, Pussy Grabber in Chief.

Here's some NOT DEPRESSING AND ANXIETY-CAUSING READING

Autocracy: Rules for Survival (http://www2.nybooks.com/daily/s3/nov/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival.html)



Rule #1: Believe the autocrat.
Rule #2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule #3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule #4: Be outraged.
Rule #5: Don’t make compromises
Rule #6: Remember the future.



This is the part that scares me the most


The national press is likely to be among the first institutional victims of Trumpism. There is no law that requires the presidential administration to hold daily briefings, none that guarantees media access to the White House. Many journalists may soon face a dilemma long familiar to those of us who have worked under autocracies: fall in line or forfeit access. There is no good solution (even if there is a right answer), for journalism is difficult and sometimes impossible without access to information.

He already did this shit on the campaign trail. Is CNN going to give up a spot for limited press time? Really?

Mackerel
11-13-2016, 02:39 AM
.

Mackerel
11-13-2016, 02:54 AM
.

Steve SFM
11-13-2016, 03:05 AM
Ethan Coen has some thank you notes. (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/opinion/sunday/2016-election-thank-you-notes.html?_r=0)


Such a surprise! So many people to thank!

1. Jill Stein voters: You helped elect a man who pledges that he will, in his first hundred days, cancel contributions to United Nations programs to fight climate change. If your vote for Ms. Stein did not end up advancing your green agenda, it did allow you to feel morally superior to all the compromising schmoes who voted for Hillary Clinton. And your feelings about your vote are more important than the consequences of your vote. So — thank you!

And he has seven more notes.

Regina Phalange
11-13-2016, 03:06 AM
As a former professional journalist, I would encourage all of you to basically never watch television again.

The real action is going to happen in print. I have had experience talking to anonymous sources that are risking termination at their firms by talking to me. There will be an untold score of people in the administration and outside of it who are wholeheartedly against him, and I guarantee they will leak. Nobody on the record though - it will all be anonymous. Print journalism will allow for anonymous sources among his inner circle and unfortunately, beyond that. Meaning there will be anonymous leaks from people with different agendas. It's going to be a bit of an anarchy. But you can still infer certain things from what they say. Television though? Useless.

I almost wish I could pack up and move to DC because I would love love love love love to be in the white house to bring it down from the inside...

And as far as print, I agree. However, the stupid people who elected him don't read print. So it'll be great for us who do read print, but we can't make our ignorant family, friends, coworkers, etc believe anything he does. "Here read this piece by this Pulitzer-winning journalist" is not going to wow, impress, or sway them.

I don't even know where I read it, whether it was an article linked here or elsewhere, but one thing to do for normalizing of him, ignoring of genuine scary shit, is to contact the advertisers of a particular outlet of media. If we did that often, loudly, and in large numbers, that'll be our best shot.

Volta
11-13-2016, 03:07 AM
If any of you watch tv as much as I do, you might be noticing, pretty early on imo, a lot of pro-Trump shows. Dateline NBC had a two hour program that showed him as a handsome playboy (I do forget that he has been on this earth 70 years and has had a whole full life), a proud father, and a very proud grandfather. Another network talked about how he is going to keep some parts of ACA. Back to NBC, they made it feel like Trump would be a great president because he is so invested in his grandchildren's future.

But I think some of that is true but more than anything, even NBC who cut ties almost completely, they know if they are not kissing his ass he just won't give them the time of day. And everyone will want access to the new, history-making C-in-C.

Mackerel
11-13-2016, 03:11 AM
If any of you watch tv as much as I do, you might be noticing, pretty early on imo, a lot of pro-Trump shows.

This is proving my point. Never watch television news again.

Steve SFM
11-13-2016, 03:28 AM
But I was just gonna start the Katy Tur for NBC White House Correspondent campaign!

JayPeaches
11-13-2016, 03:42 AM
A good friend of mine is a journalist for the county division of our city paper (I live in a small town, but the suburban area is large - about 500,000). Earlier this year, he and his entire staff quit without notice after they were harshly scolded by management for publishing a short op-ed that questioned both Trump's and Hillary's proposed immigration plans. They were told, in no uncertain terms, to never publish anything anti-Trump again.

Mackerel
11-13-2016, 02:12 PM
A good friend of mine is a journalist for the county division of our city paper (I live in a small town, but the suburban area is large - about 500,000). Earlier this year, he and his entire staff quit without notice after they were harshly scolded by management for publishing a short op-ed that questioned both Trump's and Hillary's proposed immigration plans. They were told, in no uncertain terms, to never publish anything anti-Trump again.

I have now begun to look with suspicion at every aspect of my life I may have been unwittingly enabling, consuming, or ignoring that contributed to the culmination of this moral horror. I am not a religious person but the words repentance and shame have resounded with me in a way I don't think I've ever felt before in my life. And one of those things is the total collapse of the local press.

Due to their heavy losses in profit, community newspapers are now increasingly owned by unscrupulous, dysfunctional entities who let advertisers basically dictate the contents of the paper. It is a calamity that I knew was going on, but it did not hit me until now that the financial collapse of our media would also lead to a deterioration in democracy and liberalism. I am broke right now, but I'm going to make a serious effort to think of how best to show my support to some of the many institutions I took for granted (ACLU among them) and try to repent for what I have contributed to through my apathy.

uncanny hats
11-13-2016, 02:14 PM
Trump has released a plan for black America. (http://http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-transition-team-begins-minority-outreach-with-a-new-deal-for-black-america/)

Regina Phalange
11-13-2016, 05:09 PM
Blue states aren't immune

Comedians turned to the election in Boston -- and things got ugly (http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/11/13/comics/jUk2zyzEIFVdQtLU9YZ5QI/story.html)


Comments about politics set off a bitter scene at the Comics Come Home benefit show at TD Garden Saturday, where sets about President-elect Donald Trump led comedians Wanda Sykes and Nick DiPaolo to trade insults with audience members.

...

In two clips that were posted online, Sykes is audibly booed by concertgoers.

“This is not the first time we’ve elected a racist, sexist, homophobic president,” Sykes says in the first clip.

She was booed, but there was CLEARLY cheering too, and the cheering sounded largely female to me. And it wasn't Wanda's best set, but not boo-worthy.


After Sykes came off stage, host Denis Leary tried to calm down the crowd before Danvers-born DiPaolo took to the stage and said he was happy that Trump was elected. He then went on a tirade about Democrat Hillary Clinton’s health and called her a felon.

Later, a woman walked to the stage and confronted DiPaolo. As the woman was escorted away from the stage, DiPaolo made a comment to the crowd about her being Jewish.

What a stunning turn of events. Ah history class, too bad you had no lessons about a megalomaniac character who brings out anti-semites.

Mackerel
11-13-2016, 05:13 PM
I am terrified of Twitter right now. Rape Melania is trending, and the mere fact that it's trending is automatic "evidence" for millions of Twitter users out there that Clinton voters are actually saying Rape Melania, when all anyone is saying on social media is that it's bad and nobody is actually saying this.

We are living in 1984.

Regina Phalange
11-13-2016, 05:40 PM
I think this is a much bigger story than is being covered.

Blue Feed, Red Feed (http://graphics.wsj.com/blue-feed-red-feed/#/obama)
See Liberal Facebook and Conservative Facebook, Side by Side

They explain how their methodology and show you what someone like us might see on FB vs someone conservative. People scarily do get their info from FB. I do sometimes, but I click on the links that seem worthy and investigate it myself. How many people do that? And maybe if the main stream media hadn't been so happy to report ceaselessly on emails, maybe some of this info could have been debunked for them because they certainly weren't listening to their friend and family.

entropy
11-13-2016, 07:15 PM
When I walked into my pantry, I realized in a comical way that false equivalency is everywhere. We have to continue to fight against it and train others!

http://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/11240140?wid=450&hei=450&fmt=pjpeg
False equivalency training. 8 = 12! In what world? Ok there MAY BE exactly the same amount of sheets packaged differently. If I want to give 12 classes a roll of paper towels, the 8 pack isn't going help the situation. I will have to buy two packages. Also what if there isn't enough space between the wall and my paper towel dispenser, then what? Then of course, we don't know if they are telling the truth or not. The could reduce the larger rolls by just a few sheets and we'd never know. Eight doesn't equal 12! Eight equals eight and 12 equals 12. What kind of Orwellian world do we live in?


Also I'd totally vote in Chris Rock. RIGHT NOW! Comedians are some of the smartest people out there. Colbert and Jon Stewart, HELL YEAH!

Andyland
11-13-2016, 10:00 PM
Reince Priebus is chief-of-staff. Steven Bannon, a white nationalist, is "chief strategist to the President."

(Some media outlets are saying he just has *ties* to white nationalism)

Puddles
11-13-2016, 10:38 PM
I noticed that in the official news release, Bannon's name was listed first and they were referred to as "equal partners." I saw someone on Twitter point out that even Bush at least maintained the fiction that Karl Rove was lower ranking than Andrew Card.

Regina Phalange
11-13-2016, 10:52 PM
Is this a position that has to be confirmed? Would that senate refuse to confirm a white nationalist?

A somber reflection by Newsweek (http://www.newsweek.com/neil-buchanan-cruel-crooked-caricature-doomed-clinton-520125), harsh on the media


Clinton only needed support from a few thousand of those non-voters in swing states to turn her popular vote victory into an electoral college victory. Yet they stayed home (or voted for third-party candidates), some in disgust and others due to a sense of entitled (and imaginary) purity, convinced by the relentless anti-Clinton narrative.

To return to my image of the bully and his victim in high school, it was bad enough that Clinton had to deal with Trump's provocations. He was the one tying her shoelaces together and pushing her, but the supposedly liberal press was throwing things at her and telling her to catch them or dodge them as she tried not to fall down the stairs.

She still managed to come out of it all with her dignity intact, never falling even as the last banana peels were thrown in her path.

Yet now some people want to blame her for being flawed. She lost a winnable election, they say, but she did so because she could not overcome voter suppression or a relentlessly harsh media narrative. She—and the country—deserved better. Now, we will all pay the price.

I like this piece too (http://livebloggingmydescentintomadness.tumblr.com/post/152983646355/i-do-take-some-small-cold-bitter-satisfaction-in)


I do take some small, cold, bitter satisfaction in one thing, and that’s the fact that Trump is going to be absolutely fucking miserable for the next four years.

He’s an entertainer and an attention whore, not a public servant. He wants to be on TV and in front of crowds, not actually working a difficult, grueling, stressful job he can’t opt out of. He’s going to have to sit through SO many meetings, be forced to read SO many briefings, get shoehorned into serious business all day every day, without crowds to perform for, and he’s going to hate Every. Single. Minute.

And then, when he doesn’t deliver on his promises, when he doesn’t build the wall or create jobs or make people rich, when it becomes clear how incompetent and buffoonish he is, the country and all his supporters will turn on him. They’re gonna start blaming him for everything, and those crowds that cheered for him are going to start booing. He’ll be humiliated at every turn, and leave office with the lowest approval rating ever, and he’ll be universally despised.

Because if he’d lost to Hillary, he would have played the martyr forever, called everything rigged, and had a cushy gig on Fox News complaining every day about how he would have done it better. But now he’s going to have to actually WORK, he’s going to be forced to deal with RESPONSIBILITIES, while surrounded by people who hate him and don’t respect him, people vastly more intelligent and competent than him, and he will be exposed as a loser. And then, we’ll fire him. He’ll go down as the worst president in history. And he’ll have no one to blame but himself.

I know this isn’t much against the fear of what’s going to happen, but friends, hear me. We are going to make Donald Trump’s life a living nightmare, and I for one take immense pleasure from that.


It's not comforting, but I do take some pleasure too in him fucking hating every second from now till he leaves.

uncanny hats
11-13-2016, 11:05 PM
Reince Priebus is chief-of-staff. Steven Bannon, a white nationalist, is "chief strategist to the President."

Yep. The CEO of Trump's campaign. He also contacted the Le Pens to help to Front National win France.

Perky Compson
11-13-2016, 11:12 PM
Now that we've had a few days to recoup, I'm pretty much over the left wing infighting and autopsying of the election. I don't know how we got into the position where we're putting out think piece after think piece cannibalizing the left, blaming everyone from third party voters to Hillary's campaign staff to Sanders to pollsters to white people wearing safety pins as if Trump were a mindless natural disaster and not the result of a narcissist and the sick twisted people who campaigned for him and supported him in the media and are committing hate crimes in his name.

I don't think calls for unity are inherently a bad thing. That doesn't mean a call to "give Trump a chance" or "just see how it plays out". I mean calls for "let's focus on pooling our resources to mitigate as much damage as we can and keep this nightmare to two years". Let's go after the real problem. Instead of endless post-mortems on third party voters who believed the margin was wide enough they could vote optimistically or who knew their vote never counted, the HRC campaign staff who worked themselves to the bone trying to stop this, and the people in the aftermath who are clumsily trying to show support to the most threatened.

Idk I'm just really tired of thought exercises on safety pins and whether Sanders would have won and this giant hole in the dialogue where Trump & co.'s moral culpability should go.

Zippo
11-13-2016, 11:19 PM
I would like to suggest that the forums on NationStates.net are a good starting place for this community to start to figure out why there are divisions between the left and right to this degree, why the millennials are seeking an alt-right and an alt-left, and how we can engage politically with the disenfranchised (which ironically now encompasses those who are progressive) so as to refuse demagoguery its nascent place at the head of society and to build an alternative. Clinton was not of the left and Trump is of the right only in its social application. These people are friends.

It is a political simulator where those from the left and right are really beginning to move past division and are beginning to pinpoint false revolutions in the establishment interest for what they really are. This is the pivotal point for Trump supporters to begin when it comes to their own candidate being at odds with their reasons for voting. But to talk with these people we have to be thoroughly anti-Trump and not pro-Clinton. That means that it doesn't matter if Clinton is a woman from now on, although it clearly was instrumental to a Trump victory. The historical wisdom of this community when it comes to marginalisation is instrumental, but it now must be exercised towards the other - white men. Somebody said in the last thread that empathy is now rebellion. One thing that the left has as its strength is not intellect- it is the capacity for empathy and the ability to make the personal political. It is the desire for rebellion that the right now inhabits. It is our duty to now inhabit this space with them.

The American and British left have been under an illusion of comfort and have become politically dead and irrelevant, hence a need for an alt-anything. But the left understands alternative more than the right. We really need to get to grips with conspiracy theory and its importance as an academic and sociological area of study. We all want an alternative, Clinton was never of the left truly, and Trump is of the right only in the sense that he wants to dominate every single person and white supremacy given the current climate is his toe in the waters. If white supremacists and poor minority people feel disenfranchised, then the key has to be economic. Trump is a billionaire. We know what it is to have the oppressor in charge - Trump voters do not, and they must. All of Iceland's women walked out of their jobs recently. All of Iceland revolted against bankers and enabling politicians. The two movements did not hold one another at gunpoint. The first movement (economic and against bankers) encouraged the second (social and against oppression).

Do not believe that Trump supporters will not empathise with LGBT or feminist issues. They have had 8 years to incubate those realities. Race is more difficult due to its economic implications, but economic inequality truly is the heart of this shambles, and the heart is beating openly and is vulnerable. Do not give your society and the world a heart attack by panicking or being angry.

Andyland
11-14-2016, 12:10 AM
Is this a position that has to be confirmed?

Nope :(

These types of appointees serve "at the pleasure of the President."

uncanny hats
11-14-2016, 12:13 AM
Anyone else watching 60 Minutes?

Andyland
11-14-2016, 12:32 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29Mg6Gfh9Co&feature=share

fluteoftheloon
11-14-2016, 12:34 AM
No, but read on twitter that he argued if Roe v Wade is overturned, women should just travel to other states, if they can't get an abortion. WTF

Oh and apparently he and Ryan plan to replace Medicare with private insurance next year. This is really bad for your senior citizens, right? Like, REALLY REALLY BAD. Like, hey, let's slowly kill our voter base, Donald! bad.

Regina Phalange
11-14-2016, 02:40 AM
Oh and apparently he and Ryan plan to replace Medicare with private insurance next year. This is really bad for your senior citizens, right? Like, REALLY REALLY BAD. Like, hey, let's slowly kill our voter base, Donald! bad.

Weirdly, it's shit like that that gives me hope. Ryan might want it and a few other cuckoos, but their older base is going to not stand for it. Unless Ryan, etc, gut it and plan to blame The Donald in 2 years. I know Republicans want to kill it, but I know Republicans want to be re-elected.

Kala
11-14-2016, 02:49 AM
wait what? there are nearly 60 million people on Medicare. GOOD FUCKING LUCK WITH THAT YOU VIPERS.

Volta
11-14-2016, 03:26 AM
Weirdly, it's shit like that that gives me hope. Ryan might want it and a few other cuckoos, but their older base is going to not stand for it. Unless Ryan, etc, gut it and plan to blame The Donald in 2 years. I know Republicans want to kill it, but I know Republicans want to be re-elected.

And the shit is really going to get out of hand when they start to throw blame around. They kind of have all the power. Not many democrats they can go after, although, I am sure Elizabeth Warren or Chuck Shumer will be to blame for a lot of stuff that doesn't happen if he doesn't get all he wants done in the "first 100 days."
And even that can last so long before they turn on each other.

Trump only wants to live in the White House part time. I bet you Pence is very happy to hear that.

entropy
11-14-2016, 09:57 AM
Trump only wants to live in the White House part time. I bet you Pence is very happy to hear that.

And where is the right's outrage about that?


I was at the protest in Indianapolis Saturday night! The best sign?


Trump grabs women by the pussy. Pence by the uterus.

Periods for Pence needs to go national.

Mackerel
11-14-2016, 12:55 PM
^I think we should encourage him to stay away from the White House as much as possible.

entropy
11-14-2016, 01:26 PM
He (Trump) has always been a talking head.

I think I'm having a delayed reaction. I was more positive at the end of last week than I am now. I cannot believe Donald Fucking Trump is the next president. When I was in the Air Force the Commander-in-Chief's photo was in a lot of offices, etc. I just cannot imagine seeing his face in that frame. I just cannot.

I am trying to remember it's about the small day to day things that we do. We need to smile at our neighbors. Offer support. Be kind. I was reminded of Before Sunset one of my favorite movies ever. Sometimes, it's about the pencils.


Céline: But the reality of it is that the true work of improving things is in the little achievements of the day. And that's what you need to enjoy, just in that field.

Jesse: What, what do you mean, exactly?

Céline: Well, for example, I was working for this organization that helped villages in Mexico. And their concerns was how to get the pencils sent to the kid in these little country schools. I was not about big revolutionary ideas, it was about pencils. I see the people that do the real work and what's really sad, in a way, is that...the people that are the most giving, hard working and capable of making this world better, usually don't have the ego and ambition to be a leader. They don't see any interest in superficial rewards, they don't care if...if their name ever appear in the press. They actually enjoy the process of helping others, they're in the moment.

Mackerel
11-14-2016, 01:27 PM
Everybody is on fire about his fascistic statements, and I am too, but on a more basic level I wonder how long it will be before everybody realizes, and the media openly admits, that Donald Trump is totally and hopelessly mentally incapacitated. I am not kidding, joking, or exaggerating.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxMD9jnXcAANZem.jpg

fluteoftheloon
11-14-2016, 01:39 PM
He has to hire about 4000 people by January, if I remember correctly. How long before he runs out of names or patience and delegates that all to Pence like an unwanted household chore?

Jezebelle
11-14-2016, 01:56 PM
I'm think I'm finally at acceptance. I had horrible dreams Saturday all about Trump and the potential disaster... and I woke up feeling relieved of all my pent up fear.

I'm enjoying this brief moment of acceptance before the cabinet positions are officially announced. I fully expect another round of full blown shock and anger once those are announced.

spoilered for size:

https://norasjourneyearlyonsetcongenitalscoliosis.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/grief1.jpg

Nancy
11-14-2016, 02:13 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/11/magazine/a-time-for-refusal.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0


It is a Sunday afternoon in a provincial town in France. Two men meet at a cafe. One of them, Berenger, is half-drunk. He is being berated by his companion, Jean. All of the sudden, they hear a great noise. When they and other townspeople crane their necks to figure out what’s going on, they see a large animal thundering down one of the streets, stamping and snorting all the way. A rhinoceros! Not long after, there’s another. They are startled. It’s outrageous. Something must be done. What they begin to do is argue heatedly about whether the second rhino was the first one going past a second time or a different one, and then about whether the rhinos are African or Asiatic.

Things become more disturbing in the next act. (This is a play: “Rhinoceros,” written by Eugène Ionesco.) The rhino sightings continue to be the subject of pointless dispute. Then, one by one, various people in the town begin to turn into rhinos. Their skin hardens, bumps appear over their noses and grow into horns. Jean had been one of those scandalized by the first two rhino sightings, but he becomes a rhino, too. Midway through his metamorphosis, Berenger argues with him: “You must admit that we have a philosophy that animals don’t share, and an irreplaceable set of values, which it’s taken centuries of human civilization to build up.” Jean, well on his way to being a rhino, retorts, “When we’ve demolished all that, we’ll be better off!”

It is an epidemic of “rhinoceritis.” Almost everyone succumbs: those who admire the brute force of the rhinos, those who didn’t believe the sightings to begin with, those who initially found them alarming. One character, Dudard, declares, “If you’re going to criticize, it’s better to do so from the inside.” And so he willingly undergoes the metamorphosis, and there’s no way back for him. The final holdouts from this mass capitulation are Berenger and Daisy, his co-worker.

Eugène Ionesco was French-Romanian. He wrote “Rhinoceros” in 1958 as a response to totalitarian movements in Europe, but he was influenced specifically by his experience of fascism in Romania in the 1930s. Ionesco wanted to know why so many people give in to these poisonous ideologies. How could so many get it so wrong? The play, an absurd farce, was one way he grappled with this problem.

On Aug. 19, 2015, shortly after midnight, the brothers Stephen and Scott Leader assaulted Guillermo Rodriguez. Rodriguez had been sleeping near a train station in Boston. The Leader brothers beat him with a metal pipe, breaking his nose and bruising his ribs, and called him a “wetback.” They urinated on him. “All these illegals need to be deported,” they are said to have declared during the attack. The brothers were fans of the candidate who would go on to win the Republican party’s presidential nomination. Told of the incident at the time, that candidate said: “People who are following me are very passionate. They love this country, and they want this country to be great again.”

That was the moment when my mental alarm bells, already ringing, went amok. There were many other astonishing events to come — the accounts of sexual violence, the evidence of racism, the promise of torture, the advocacy of war crimes — but the assault on Rodriguez, as well as the largely tolerant response to it, was a marker. Some people were outraged, but outrage soon became its own ineffectual reflex. Others found a rich vein of humor in the parade of obscenities and cruelties. Others simply took a view similar to that of the character Botard in Ionesco’s play: “I don’t mean to be offensive. But I don’t believe a word of it. No rhinoceros has ever been seen in this country!”

In the early hours of Nov. 9, 2016, the winner of the presidential election was declared. As the day unfolded, the extent to which a moral rhinoceritis had taken hold was apparent. People magazine had a giddy piece about the president-elect’s daughter and her family, a sequence of photos that they headlined “way too cute.” In The New York Times, one opinion piece suggested that the belligerent bigot’s supporters ought not be shamed. Another asked whether this president-elect could be a good president and found cause for optimism. Cable news anchors were able to express their surprise at the outcome of the election, but not in any way vocalize their fury. All around were the unmistakable signs of normalization in progress. So many were falling into line without being pushed. It was happening at tremendous speed, like a contagion. And it was catching even those whose plan was, like Dudard’s in “Rhinoceros,” to criticize “from the inside.”

Evil settles into everyday life when people are unable or unwilling to recognize it. It makes its home among us when we are keen to minimize it or describe it as something else. This is not a process that began a week or month or year ago. It did not begin with drone assassinations, or with the war on Iraq. Evil has always been here. But now it has taken on a totalitarian tone.

At the end of “Rhinoceros,” Daisy finds the call of the herd irresistible. Her skin goes green, she develops a horn, she’s gone. Berenger, imperfect, all alone, is racked by doubts. He is determined to keep his humanity, but looking in the mirror, he suddenly finds himself quite strange. He feels like a monster for being so out of step with the consensus. He is afraid of what this independence will cost him. But he keeps his resolve, and refuses to accept the horrible new normalcy. He’ll put up a fight, he says. “I’m not capitulating!”

uncanny hats
11-14-2016, 02:45 PM
Some useful info (http://www.attn.com/stories/12768/former-congressional-staffer-explains-how-to-make-congressman-listen) on how to get elected officials to listen if you don't have mad stacks of cash.

Regina Phalange
11-14-2016, 02:48 PM
I think I'm having a delayed reaction. I was more positive at the end of last week than I am now. I cannot believe Donald Fucking Trump is the next president. When I was in the Air Force the Commander-in-Chief's photo was in a lot of offices, etc. I just cannot imagine seeing his face in that frame. I just cannot.

People keep bringing up these little things and they're killing me. State of the Union. Inaugural balls. White House Correspondent's dinner. Championship teams. Pardoning the turkeys. Easter Egg hunt. Like we're all worried RIGHTLY about nukes and civil liberties, but there a million little things that now are going to have his face representing us to the rest of the world. The big things are far more important and it's silly to worry about the little, but they horrify me anyway.

eta: Last Week Tonight is free on Youtube. John Oliver is not normalizing and not backing down.

JayPeaches
11-14-2016, 02:54 PM
Everybody is on fire about his fascistic statements, and I am too, but on a more basic level I wonder how long it will be before everybody realizes, and the media openly admits, that Donald Trump is totally and hopelessly mentally incapacitated. I am not kidding, joking, or exaggerating.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxMD9jnXcAANZem.jpg


Trump is wayyyyy out of his depth. And his rag tag team of reanimated corpses are, too.

We all knew this, but I think we were so focused on highlighting his incompetencies in general that we didn't really think about what it would be like FOR HIM to actually be President. One thing I keep laughing about with my friends (I mean, it's not funny, but...) is how he's going to respond when his 24-hour-a-day, 7-day-a-week job begins. I know that a tremendous amount of deference is shown to a President in the white house, but it's not like he's going to be able to get out of being in the situation room at 2am when it's necessary, no matter how pissed off or tired he is.

It's hard for me to imagine a scenario where he makes it through four full years of this. I think he will epically melt down. I suspect the GOP already knows this, though. I'm sure they're already planning his exit strategy. I don't think any amount of rallies or manipulation will prevent him from completely losing his shit and doing something really, really stupid.

Mackerel
11-14-2016, 03:05 PM
We all knew this, but I think we were so focused on highlighting his incompetencies in general that we didn't really think about what it would be like FOR HIM to actually be President. One thing I keep laughing about with my friends (I mean, it's not funny, but...) is how he's going to respond when his 24-hour-a-day, 7-day-a-week job begins. I know that a tremendous amount of deference is shown to a President in the white house, but it's not like he's going to be able to get out of being in the situation room at 2am when it's necessary, no matter how pissed off or tired he is.

It's hard for me to imagine a scenario where he makes it through four full years of this. I think he will epically melt down. I suspect the GOP already knows this, though. I'm sure they're already planning his exit strategy. I don't think any amount of rallies or manipulation will prevent him from completely losing his shit and doing something really, really stupid.

I think you're 100% right, and I actually think all the reporters who spent any one-on-one time around him or his team know this in their bones as well. Everybody in media, government, Barack Obama - everybody - is just putting him through this silly charade of "let's give him a chance" so we still have a democratic peaceful exchange of power and we don't have riots in the streets, then they're all going to hold back and wait for him to collapse. I'm convinced of this.

Nancy
11-14-2016, 03:20 PM
The GOP can't wait to replace him with a more suitable model. It's just a matter of time.

thisnotget
11-14-2016, 03:23 PM
ugh just cancel 2016 already

Mackerel
11-14-2016, 03:53 PM
and then what? We get Pence???

I'm starting to think President Pence is very likely, yeah. :(

uncanny hats
11-14-2016, 04:03 PM
Blair High School which serves Silver Spring and the People's Republic of Takoma Park (in Maryland) has walked out and started protesting. (http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/silver-spring/students-walk-out-of-silver-spring-school-to-protest-trump/351714769)

Mackerel
11-14-2016, 04:04 PM
well, the good news there is that no one really likes him. Even his own state hates him.

if he were to be president under those circumstances - Trump being too psychologically incapacitated to even pretend to be president - it would be the biggest political scandal in modern global history and a huge embarrassment for the country. In such political volatility, I think he would be self-aware that nobody voted for him and we have a chance at shaming him into not governing as an extreme Christian ideologue. There is no way to reason with the mentally deranged thing we have in office - he can barely pay attention to anything for longer than two minutes, and anybody around him is capable of changing his mind at a moment's notice.

Homogenik
11-14-2016, 04:09 PM
Americans have been rhinocerocized for decades.

MikeEP
11-14-2016, 04:11 PM
I think you're 100% right, and I actually think all the reporters who spent any one-on-one time around him or his team know this in their bones as well. Everybody in media, government, Barack Obama - everybody - is just putting him through this silly charade of "let's give him a chance" so we still have a democratic peaceful exchange of power and we don't have riots in the streets, then they're all going to hold back and wait for him to collapse. I'm convinced of this.

i hope you guys are right. similar thoughts occurred to me over the weekend. feels like wishful thinking, but the reality is Trump is going to be an easy target if the GOP really wants to remove him.

Ryan
11-14-2016, 04:21 PM
I mean, just go look at any of the pictures and videos of Trump's face while meeting with Obama or visiting the White House. He looks totally blindsided and out of his element. I think we all knew he would. This was some kind of stupid game to him and instead of making him take it seriously he basically got to play make-believe for a year while media and pundits threw him softball questions. I'm actually way more terrified of a President Pence because it means there's been a bait and switch, and an extreme Christian social conservative on par with Mike Huckabee is ready to take office after Trump's impending meltdown. They're going to fill all the cabinet positions with white nationalists and nutty religious people, and this whole country is so fucked. That might sound like hyperbole but it's already started and Trump's not even president yet.

uncanny hats
11-14-2016, 04:39 PM
This is all dandy but I'd be cautious about underestimating him. Every time we do, we're disastrously wrong. And we do it all the time.

Mackerel
11-14-2016, 05:04 PM
This is all dandy but I'd be cautious about underestimating him. Every time we do, we're disastrously wrong. And we do it all the time.

Well it makes zero sense to be complacent if a psychologically deranged maniac is now going to become the most powerful man in the world. The danger is more extreme, if anything.

Regina Phalange
11-14-2016, 05:14 PM
He's dangerous on two levels: actively trying to do horrible things and accidentally doing horrible things out of being grossly unprepared and unqualified. I mean, jesus, he makes W look like a competent, loving, intellectual.

Kurt Eichenwald is pissed at left-leaning, non-Hillary voters and is not having any of your "Bernie would have won" shit.

The Myths Democrats Swallowed That Cost Them the Presidential Election (http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044)


A certain kind of liberal makes me sick. They traffic in false equivalencies, always pretending that both nominees are the same, justifying their apathy and not voting or preening about their narcissistic purity as they cast their ballot for a person they know cannot win. I have no problem with anyone who voted for Trump, because they wanted a Trump presidency. I have an enormous problem with anyone who voted for Trump or Stein or Johnson—or who didn’t vote at all—and who now expresses horror about the outcome of this election. If you don’t like the consequences of your own actions, shut the hell up

....

I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: Losers.

Barbarella
11-14-2016, 05:18 PM
Steve Bannon:


“Your vagina is not a qualification for a job, for political office or for special treatment. Tits or GTFO is the second commandment of the male internet.”

More if you can stomach them: http://gizmodo.com/10-headlines-from-the-white-houses-new-chief-strategist-1788935071?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Gizmodo_facebook

Perky Compson
11-14-2016, 05:35 PM
He's dangerous on two levels: actively trying to do horrible things and accidentally doing horrible things out of being grossly unprepared and unqualified. I mean, jesus, he makes W look like a competent, loving, intellectual.

Kurt Eichenwald is pissed at left-leaning, non-Hillary voters and is not having any of your "Bernie would have won" shit.

The Myths Democrats Swallowed That Cost Them the Presidential Election (http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044)

I think this is just the wrongheaded way to go about things. We're going to need as many warm bodies, as much money and as much volunteer power as possible to keep this from getting worse. And I do think this in-fighting is part of what led the left to not get enough people out during the election. How are we supposed to mobilize when there are endless think-pieces to write and post-mortems to be done on how Other Leftists Are Doing Leftism Wrong?

We had our moment to be angry at the third party voters and the stay-at-homers and the Bernie Bros. Time to turn around and do everything we can to roadblock the real enemy here.

Mackerel
11-14-2016, 05:45 PM
I think this is just the wrongheaded way to go about things. We're going to need as many warm bodies, as much money and as much volunteer power as possible to keep this from getting worse. And I do think this in-fighting is part of what led the left to not get enough people out during the election. How are we supposed to mobilize when there are endless think-pieces to write and post-mortems to be done on how Other Leftists Are Doing Leftism Wrong?

We had our moment to be angry at the third party voters and the stay-at-homers and the Bernie Bros. Time to turn around and do everything we can to roadblock the real enemy here.

I'm scared to death and want everyone to stop fighting so we can get the voters we need and end this nightmare. I know people are angry and convinced we should not talk to Trump voters, but I am willing to do anything I can possibly humanly physically do to make sure this stops as soon as possible, because every moment feels like agony to me right now. There is a racial divide between the two groups right now - white working class and black - that makes it impossible to appeal to both groups at the same time, and I have no earthly clue how to fix it.

Regina Phalange
11-14-2016, 05:50 PM
I think this is just the wrongheaded way to go about things. We're going to need as many warm bodies, as much money and as much volunteer power as possible to keep this from getting worse. And I do think this in-fighting is part of what led the left to not get enough people out during the election. How are we supposed to mobilize when there are endless think-pieces to write and post-mortems to be done on how Other Leftists Are Doing Leftism Wrong?

We had our moment to be angry at the third party voters and the stay-at-homers and the Bernie Bros. Time to turn around and do everything we can to roadblock the real enemy here.

I think since it's not even been a full week it doesn't bother me much yet. And I think it's important to fact check a lot of the crap that HAS been said. Like this is the shut down of so many of the arguments. Plus, we need to figure out what went wrong or we will do it again.

People who loved Bernie but didn't vote Hillary are particularly frustrating right now. Whether we chastise them or try to figure out how to reach out to them, it's a problem. They're also very much like Trump voters in that they hate the system, but vote against their interest and we need to figure out how to make them listen, make them participate so they want to stay engaged.

Perky Compson
11-14-2016, 05:58 PM
I don't know. I feel like the self-righteous anger right now is self-serving. It makes us feel good to lash out about how other leftists let us down. It feels good to give a thousand "fuck yous" but ultimately, we need these people, and we need them sooner rather than later. We needed them last week. It may have been less than a week since the election but we have only a little over two months to get all our ducks in a line before Inauguration Day, and I'm fucking panicked that we're wasting our time on dissecting the Bernie Bros.

Also, I'm not sure how going "fuck you you narcissists bent on ideological purity and/or you lazy non-voters" is actually examining our failures. It's blowing off steam. We're not going to get the stay-at-homers by chastising them. We don't strengthen the left by eating our own.

I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who was voting in California and didn't know if I'd go Johnson or Hillary until I was literally in the voting booth. The numbers coming out are showing that Stein voters maybe could have swung Wisconsin, but not the election. Johnson voters could have swung the election but only if we assume that at least 50% of them would have voted for Hillary instead of for Trump otherwise - given that the Libertarian Party leans closer to right libertarianism than left libertarianism, as did Johnson's platform, that's unlikely. But personally, I will probably never vote third party, even though I passionately believe our two-party system is an oppressive shitshow that leads to results like this. I'm sure a lot of other people, including those who did go third party, feel the same way. The result is chastisement enough.

Perky Compson
11-14-2016, 06:06 PM
No, we move forward. What's done is done. Fucking everyone feels ashamed right now. Everyone but the people who supported Trump.

Mackerel
11-14-2016, 06:09 PM
But personally, I will probably never vote third party, even though I passionately believe our two-party system is an oppressive shitshow that leads to results like this. I'm sure a lot of other people, including those who did go third party, feel the same way. The result is chastisement enough.

I think this is largely what Kari means - that you're adjusting your voting strategy to account for the possibility of a horrific outcome like this. I do think this is rational, smart politics and the third party voters must get on board with this idea.

Owen
11-14-2016, 06:10 PM
I, for one, am not backing down. People are already normalizing what is happening. This isn't normal. The people he is surrounding himself with flies in the face of all the excuses people have given for why they voted Trump. (That wasn't racist, sexist, xenophobic or homophobic.) This is a worst case scenario, and I am simultaneously quaking with rage and shaking with absolute sorrow.

Now, to turn these emotions into something productive. Calling our representatives. Making our voice heard, non stop. Donating. Volunteering. Marching. Creating.

uncanny hats
11-14-2016, 06:11 PM
I certainly don't underestimate him, and its damn well possible he's 1000 times smarter than we think. The problem is that he's also bugfuck insane.

I'm mostly worried about what Obama can teach him. For example, what would Trump look like with handlers like Clinton and Obama have. What is a well-polished Trump armed with a team of policy wonks? Really fucking scary.

Mackerel
11-14-2016, 06:12 PM
I don't know if some of these smug folks on "our" side actually do feel ashamed, but I'll take your word for it.

I saw a few people making tearful apologies in the PantSuit Nation group, but other people I saw out there were pretty defiant and defensive. I can only imagine it's because they feel so awful about it that they're denial and don't want to tell anyone, but I don't know.

Owen
11-14-2016, 06:12 PM
And, honestly, talk about adding insult to injury. Obama is the most decent president next to Jimmy Carter. <3 Can you imagine how it feels for him top have to babysit Trump now?

Perky Compson
11-14-2016, 06:23 PM
I think this is largely what Kari means - that you're adjusting your voting strategy to account for the possibility of a horrific outcome like this. I do think this is rational, smart politics and the third party voters must get on board with this idea.

Yeah. I'm just terrified that right now, we have seven weeks to brace ourselves for the worst Presidency since Jackson and instead of making up a unified front we're squandering the current energy into self-destruction and in-fighting, as the left is so fond of doing. And it feels good to be angry but I'm scared that we're going to use that as an excuse to continue to fracture our movement and go in to January half-cocked.

(the current rhetoric I have no patience for is Trump supporters doing the whole "see! this is what happens when you call people (doing inherently racist things) racists! this is why you shouldn't call people racists when they're just normal people!")

Mackerel
11-14-2016, 06:47 PM
Yeah. I'm just terrified that right now, we have seven weeks to brace ourselves for the worst Presidency since Jackson and instead of making up a unified front we're squandering the current energy into self-destruction and in-fighting, as the left is so fond of doing. And it feels good to be angry but I'm scared that we're going to use that as an excuse to continue to fracture our movement and go in to January half-cocked.

(the current rhetoric I have no patience for is Trump supporters doing the whole "see! this is what happens when you call people (doing inherently racist things) racists! this is why you shouldn't call people racists when they're just normal people!")

It's the left's greatest strength and its greatest weakness. When you and I were discussing this before, I told you that I embrace the fact that we don't just fall mindlessly into formation - jesus god, can you imagine a Trump ascending the Democratic party? But at the same time, when it's important for us to coalesce, we all set up shop in our corners because we all have different perspectives, backgrounds, agendas, and worries and that's why we love each other and are a party. sigh.

Perky Compson
11-14-2016, 06:49 PM
Reposting from someone on FB:


Here's a concrete action a friend of a friend proposed: Friends, let's seek a tactical victory this week. Let's try to stop the Bannon appointment. Presidents have had to back down before, for comparatively minor reasons. (Some of us are old enough to remember Zoe Baird and Kimba Wood, Bill Clinton's two AG appointments, who had to withdraw for failing to pay Social Security taxes.) Let's not assume this is a done deal.
Let's do what we can to stop this. I have enclosed a list of actions below. Please feel free to add to this, especially those of you with organizing experience (some of whom I've tagged).

1) If you live in the US, call your Representatives and Senators and tell them this is unacceptable.
2) Paul Ryan is feigning ignorance again. Call his office at (202) 225-3031 and let him know that this is not ok. Same with Majority Leader McConnell, (202) 224-2541.
3) Call out the media when they report the Bannon appointment as a straight news story or refer to him as a "Breitbart executive" or a "provocateur," but don't call him what he is: a white supremacist, anti-semite, misogynist. Don't let them normalize.
4) Where protests are ongoing, make this the focus, with signs, chants, etc. Next week we can turn out attention to other things. But for now let's focus like a laser on this.
5) Let's get religious groups on board; maybe even mainstream business groups, like the Chamber of Commerce (202-659-6000).
6) Contact other people of influence--College presidents, high-profile coaches and anyone else who has a public megaphone.
We can do this. #stopbannon

I called Paul Ryan's office and it says that the voicemail there is full. I got someone at Mitch McConnell's office and at Harry Reid's office.

Carol - yeah, what you said is definitely very salient at this time. And the more I think about it the more I'm certain my "don't scare off the third partiers/bernies/non-voters!" is partially my own self-indulgent fear. We're all reacting to this in different ways and emotions are running so high.

Mackerel
11-14-2016, 06:51 PM
I mean our huge rallying battle cry right now of "DON'T FUCKING NORMALIZE THIS" which is righteous and correct - even that - a smart Democrat adviser was pointing out how using a clinical word like "normalizing" probably ghettoizes our cry and turns it into a jargon word that only liberals say but that the rest of America doesn't really follow and I was like man, he's kinda right about that, and even this small sign of unity that gave any heft to our voice today is undermined by a lot of thoughtful, accurate nuance and good intentions.

:( I still love liberals.

Mackerel
11-14-2016, 06:54 PM
Reposting from someone on FB:



I called Paul Ryan's office and it says that the voicemail there is full. I got someone at Mitch McConnell's office and at Harry Reid's office.

Carol - yeah, what you said is definitely very salient at this time. And the more I think about it the more I'm certain my "don't scare off the third partiers/bernies/non-voters!" is partially my own self-indulgent fear. We're all reacting to this in different ways and emotions are running so high.

You're right. We need to focus. I am going to make this a concrete goal and peer pressure everyone into doing the same.

JayPeaches
11-14-2016, 07:06 PM
Trust me, no one on the other side is listening to ANYTHING we're saying. They just think we're hysterical. Unity will never be possible if we allow ourselves to be this divisive. I know that's not a popular opinion here, but I'm not convinced that these protests and Angry Women Marches and pointing out that Trump's picks are are anything but our own echo chamber.

JayPeaches
11-14-2016, 07:17 PM
This is EXACTLY where the GOP was when Obama took office. I cannot bring myself to engage in that same behavior, no matter how righteous I feel. And I feel pretty fucking righteous right now.

I'm having difficulty processing all of this, which is why I've hit pause on my reaction. I feel like I'm viewing all of this from the outside because, to some extent, I'm (temporarily) emotionally disengaged. And it does not look good. I think we stand a chance of making things worse. The angrier and louder we get, the more the GOP will dig in their heels. I don't understand how all of this is going to help. Of course I could be completely wrong, and I might change my mind tomorrow - I vacillate back and forth.

Charles
11-14-2016, 07:27 PM
This is all dandy but I'd be cautious about underestimating him. Every time we do, we're disastrously wrong. And we do it all the time.

To be fair, we overestimated the American voters.

Mackerel
11-14-2016, 07:29 PM
This is EXACTLY where the GOP was when Obama took office. I cannot bring myself to engage in that same behavior, no matter how righteous I feel. And I feel pretty fucking righteous right now.

I'm having difficulty processing all of this, which is why I've hit pause on my reaction. I feel like I'm viewing all of this from the outside because, to some extent, I'm (temporarily) emotionally disengaged. And it does not look good. I think we stand a chance of making things worse. The angrier and louder we get, the more the GOP will dig in their heels. I don't understand how all of this is going to help. Of course I could be completely wrong, and I might change my mind tomorrow - I vacillate back and forth.

I think protesting is a way of showing them how many of us are out here, but it should be backed up with calls to every elected official in your district. However, we cannot keep the country safe without GOP leadership. We just can't. We have no presence in government beyond a local level anymore. So I've made an effort to reach out to GOP senators in the last few days begging them to keep me in mind.

Long before November I've been studying and observing the NeverTrump GOP intellectuals and politicians, and they are just as alarmed as the left. We are not exaggerating, this is as bad as we think it is. There are a number of Republicans out there who are desperately tired of their own party's extremism. There is no reason we cannot collaborate and communicate with them to try form a more powerful opposition. We can't do this without them.

Mackerel
11-14-2016, 07:33 PM
George W. Bush's ex-speechwriter David Frum's thoughts on "let's give Trump a fresh chance": https://storify.com/Noahkgreen/let-s-have-a-fresh-start

Nick
11-14-2016, 07:34 PM
To be fair, we overestimated the American voters.

Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing. I think we got Trump just right.

Puddles
11-14-2016, 07:46 PM
Hearing rumours on Twitter that John Bolton is close to being named Secretary of State. Just last year, Bolton wrote a piece advocating war with Iran. I remember years ago (during the Bush administration), this British fellow on TV saying "John Bolton is to diplomacy what Jack the Ripper was to surgery." That's always stayed with me.

ETA: The "British fellow" was Ian Williams, U.N. correspondent for the Nation magazine. Bolton was Bush's ambassador to the U.N. (briefly - it was a recess appointment) at the time.

uncanny hats
11-14-2016, 11:51 PM
WELL LOOKIE HERE.

I was browsing the ADL's list of white supremacists....and one looked awfully familiar...

http://blog.adl.org/extremism/whos-who-in-white-lives-matter

The first person featured on this list I have known since I was six years old. He turned into a Skinhead in high school and has been terrorizing the world ever since. He used to date one of my close friends.

Sorry. As someone with white supremacists in the family closet, that sucks. These type " boneheads" are often adventurers. Dude's prolly only cred is that he's a figurehead and he's listed on this page. White nationalism is still mostly marginalized, but Trump certainly made them stronger. Cryptofacists will certainly have a stronger voice.Suit and tie alt-righters are more of a threat. They're brilliant, educated, pretty and can raise money. NPI's next event in DC is pretty pricey. We're talking academics and stuff. But it still sucks you actually this dude. This shit makes one feel dirty.

Regina Phalange
11-15-2016, 12:01 AM
Hey, since The Donald's SIL is jewish, how do you think those Bannon meetings go?

uncanny hats
11-15-2016, 11:11 AM
Obama has called Trump pragmatic. (http://https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/obama-trump-not-ideological-calls-him-pragmatic/2016/11/14/6390f564-aab0-11e6-8f19-21a1c65d2043_video.html)

Mackerel
11-15-2016, 01:44 PM
Obama has called Trump pragmatic. (http://https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/obama-trump-not-ideological-calls-him-pragmatic/2016/11/14/6390f564-aab0-11e6-8f19-21a1c65d2043_video.html)

All my relatives live in South Korea. He has publicly declared that the United States should pull out of South Korea immediately and leave them to deal with North Korea alone. I do not want to be at DEFCON1 all the time, but virtually every foreign policy and military official in this country agrees that would be a huge calamity for the entire world because North Korea most assuredly has nuclear weapons and will use them, because the leader of that country is even less experienced and even crazier than Donald Trump.

I'm almost positive his quick reverse-face (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-southkorea-idUSKBN13508O) last Thursday, which may have saved us from the immediate threat of instability and possible nuclear war with North Korea, was because Obama is leading him around like a baby right now. I hate that Obama is caught in this position, but he's also in the unique role of helping mitigate some of the many mistakes and landmines (one of which would cause untold suffering and death to my relatives) that Trump might set off due to his belligerence and ignorance of world history. He is not making Trump polished, he's turning Trump away from decisions like this one.

Mackerel
11-15-2016, 02:05 PM
This quote is from the neoconservative journal the National Review everybody. THE Obama-hating, leftwing-despising NATIONAL REVIEW. (oh and a big fat middle finger to the jab at the left in one of the sentences. but still) They're worried about Stephen Bannon too!


If ethnic and religious minorities are worried, it’s in part because Donald Trump and his intimates have spent the last several months winking at one of the ugliest political movements in America’s recent history. Furthermore, as some on the left have been more attuned to than their conservative counterparts, the problem is not whether Bannon himself subscribes to a noxious strain of political nuttery; it’s that his de facto endorsement of it enables it to spread and to claim legitimacy, and that what is now a vicious fringe could, over time, become mainstream.

The U.S. is not going to see pogroms or “internment camps” spring up in January. But countries require bonds of trust among citizens — including those citizens elected to be leaders. The Left gnawed at those bonds with its thoughtless commitment to cosmopolitan virtues. But the Right threatens to sever them entirely if it continues to court the proponents of ethno-nationalism, or trade in their rhetoric.

Principled conservatives, especially those in leadership positions, have a political and moral duty to condemn, and to work to eradicate, the animus that is the alt-right’s raison d’être, and to uphold the pillars of the American project. That project is more than metaphysical abstractions; but it is also not a simple matter of blut und boden. No, Steve Bannon is not Josef Goebbels. But he has provided a forum for people who spend their days photoshopping pictures of conservatives into ovens.


Another thought: in retrospect I wish I'd been more vigilant about condemning people who called Bush Dubya a fascist. That word has all lost meaning to the point where people don't understand that Donald Trump is *actually* fascistic. David Brooks, a William F. Buckley conservative, wrote in his column that fascism is descending in America. This is real, the accusation against Dubya was not. I think Dubya was the worst president we've had so far in modern times (gulp) but he was not that. For the record.

Regina Phalange
11-15-2016, 02:11 PM
A full week since election day, how is everyone doing with relatives and friends, neighbors, coworkers?

I'm still hiding. I'm not capable of discussing calmly and I'm still deeply hurt, embarrassed by them, judgmental, disappointed. I don't know what to say, how to say it. I mean, I'd fight forever but how do you talk to someone with the intellectual range of a brick wall? And about as much empathy.

My role in the family is to shut up. It's terrible and I know I've discussed it here before. So if I can't keep my mouth shut, it'll be scorched earth. And my fault, apparently. Everyone else can be awful but I can't call them on it. They're not responsible for shutting up, respecting me. So until I can be reasonable, I don't want to blow up everything by accident. Like if I drop that nuke, I want it to be on purpose and not because I'm still reacting to all this emotionally. I know I'm rational in my Trump concerns, but there is a lot of emotional baggage I carry too that I can't be sure isn't affecting me. Plus I need to chill the fuck out cause I'm in a blue state and if every person I share DNA with voted Trump, it didn't matter. I'll always judge them, but maybe I can keep from calling them a nazi over turkey next week.

I read this last night (https://medium.com/@amandadeibert/dear-trump-supporter-who-says-they-love-me-78c2aab188a9#.1nwj5sco5) and I barely slept because of it.


I am perfectly clear that you did not set out to vote in some mean homophobic, racist way. However, I need to be clear about something else: Donald Trump spent his entire run campaigning on racist and homophobic platforms. Promising to appoint judges to dismantle my family. He chose a VP who is actively one of the most anti-LGBT politicians around: that is not hyperbole. He admitted to sexual assault casually. He called Mexicans rapists. He wants to register Muslims. He is endorsed by the KKK. These are not the reasons you voted for him, but these reasons did not stop you.

...

Trump voters want to assure me they are not homophobic, nor racist, despite voting for homophobic and racist platforms. (Or throwing their chance to help away by not showing up or doing a protest vote.)

No. You hurt me. I do not have to apologize for you hurting me.

You hurt me and now you are telling me I am not allowed to be sad or scared or angry.

At the very least you allowed me to be hurt by someone else while you condoned that abuse with a “yes” vote. You gave it your stamp of approval and now you are telling me my pain doesn’t exist.

That is not love.

...

So let me heal while you do the work to show that you recognize the pain you caused and are working to minimize its impact.

If you don’t want to do that work: okay.

By “okay” I do not mean I forgive you or that we are cool. I mean, you have made a decision and I will react to it accordingly. Notice I didn’t say respect it. A blatant disregard for the well being of others is not worthy of respect. But I will acknowledge this is a choice you made and I will walk away.

Also, yeah, I do judge you for this. I’m being super honest about that, just in case you thought I might try to gaslight you too.

Puddles
11-15-2016, 02:54 PM
Obama is trying to keep everyone calm and not get us all nuked.

I liked this article regarding Obama's comments.

Obama Is Warning America About Trump’s Presidency. Are You Listening? (https://newrepublic.com/article/138757/obama-warning-america-trumps-presidency-listening)

Mackerel
11-15-2016, 03:49 PM
I liked this article regarding Obama's comments.

Obama Is Warning America About Trump’s Presidency. Are You Listening? (https://newrepublic.com/article/138757/obama-warning-america-trumps-presidency-listening)

I 100% agree with every word of this article. Maggie Haberman, NYtimes reporter with close sources in the Donald Trump campaign, has tweets that basically hint at everything (https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/797176452038934528) we've (https://twitter.com/mcmoynihan/status/797993778732744704)been (https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/797914403492376577) saying (https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/797914670984286208). The subtext is there, but he doesn't want mass panic. Everybody on the Hill is going through this silly charade knowing later, when the recriminations come, they can point back to every bland word they said on TV and said see? I gave him a chance! And now, they're all just holding their breath....... and waiting.

The people on the Hill are often greedy, out of touch, and careerist, that's true. But I have a strange sense of confidence in their united disgust for the rank, embarrassing incompetence about to blast forth from it. Don't get me wrong, an unacceptable high number of them will just roll over as he continues to commit horrors. But there are still some sensible Republicans left, and Democrats. We must hold them all accountable though. Every step of the way.

Ryan
11-15-2016, 03:55 PM
It's like the final slap in Obama's face, though. Trump fueled the birther movement, trying to smear Obama as un-American and discredit him, then spent this year talking about how horrible he was and how his presidency was a disaster, and now Obama's having to lead him around by the hand like a 4 year old and show him how presidenting works. Will he get any credit for that? No. In fact, if you asked all the racists and alt-right trolls who voted Trump, they'd probably tell you Obama was trying to somehow influence him or find a way to stay in the White House past his two terms which they've been warning about for eight years. I never thought I'd say this, but I'm so ready for Obama to gtfo of there. If people don't appreciate you, fuck them.

uncanny hats
11-15-2016, 04:15 PM
I liked this article regarding Obama's comments.

Obama Is Warning America About Trump’s Presidency. Are You Listening? (https://newrepublic.com/article/138757/obama-warning-america-trumps-presidency-listening)

Speaking of fake news... My guess is that we can take Obama's word instead of the massive spin of intrepretion. This isn't The Divine Comedy. The fact Obama will help and Trump is willing accept it is smart. Trump wants to deport 3 million people. Only one president in history has done it. And he managed to do it while being cool, charming, and well-cherished by those who would usually oppose that sort of thing.

Puddles
11-15-2016, 04:42 PM
Speaking of fake news... My guess is that we can take Obama's word instead of the massive spin of intrepretion. This isn't The Divine Comedy. The fact Obama will help and Trump is willing accept it is smart. Trump wants to deport 3 million people. Only one president in history has done it. And he managed to do it while being cool, charming, and well-cherished by those who would usually oppose that sort of thing.

Yes, I'm sure Obama is giddy at the thought of helping Trump deport millions and that's why he's offering assistance to Trump. That's not the "spin of interpretation" at all.

uncanny hats
11-15-2016, 04:48 PM
Yes, I'm sure Obama is giddy at the thought of helping Trump deport millions and that's why he's offering assistance to Trump. That's not the "spin of interpretation" at all.
I don't think he's giddy and I never said that. I think he's trying to be helpful and that's why he brought up temperment/twitter. Obama was able to do all sorts of horrible things under the guise of being a really cool dude. Trump is Obama's intern for now.

uncanny hats
11-15-2016, 05:57 PM
Like literally every other president in history has done horrible things. The job is one ongoing compromise. The left needs to realize this or we are officially fucked FOREVER. I can't even.
I'm not really sure we're disagreeing.

entropy
11-15-2016, 06:09 PM
Like literally every other president in history has done horrible things. The job is one ongoing compromise. The left needs to realize this or we are officially fucked FOREVER. I can't even.

Abso-fucking-lutely. The left has an all or nothing attitude. At times, I really understand why the left is called cry babies!



I'm not really sure we're disagreeing.

LoL! This really made me laugh out loud!

uncanny hats
11-15-2016, 07:14 PM
All sorts of folks are coming out of the woodwork. Here's the League of the South: (http://deadstate.org/league-of-the-south-president-says-trumps-presidency-will-bring-no-mercy-to-jews-and-minorities/)


Once the globalist-progressive coalition of Jews, minorities, and anti-white whites stops reeling in confusion from the results of yesterday’s election, we can expect them to start striking back with trickery and violence. Thus, we as Southern nationalists face both danger and opportunity.

Now, more than ever, we need tight organization and numbers to help drive a stake through Dracula’s heart and keep him from rising once again to menace our people and civilization. No mercy should be shown to the enemies of our God, our Folk, and our civilization. None would be afforded us.

uncanny hats
11-15-2016, 07:56 PM
You seemed to be equating Obama to Trump. Which...no.

I didn't. I said
Speaking of fake news... My guess is that we can take Obama's word instead of the massive spin of intrepretion. This isn't The Divine Comedy. The fact Obama will help and Trump is willing accept it is smart. Trump wants to deport 3 million people. Only one president in history has done it. And he managed to do it while being cool, charming, and well-cherished by those who would usually oppose that sort of thing.

As you pointed out, all presidents do all sorts of horrible things. Instead of a conspiracy theory, lets look at Obama's actual words and I compared one incident where there is similarity. I didn't say "Obama and Trump are the same."

Regina Phalange
11-15-2016, 07:56 PM
KKK newspaper is delivered to residents in Mass. town (http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/11/15/kkk-newspaper-delivered-residents-mass-town/H2IqmeC30l1LfSON9oNjQO/story.html)


Milford Police Chief Tom O’Loughlin said someone delivered the papers to every driveway in one of the town’s neighborhoods about four weeks ago. The same thing happened in another neighborhood over the weekend.

“It’s in the late-night hours, they drive down the street and just toss them into driveways,” O'Loughlin said. “They blanket a neighborhood, like three streets.”

Elections have consequences.

Puddles
11-15-2016, 08:31 PM
I didn't. I said

As you pointed out, all presidents do all sorts of horrible things. Instead of a conspiracy theory, lets look at Obama's actual words and I compared one incident where there is similarity. I didn't say "Obama and Trump are the same."

I don't think the article I posted was a "conspiracy theory" or "fake news" though. It was an interpretation, which is in any case corroborated by other reports to some extent, such as this one: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/obama-west-wing-trump-panic-231141

I don't find any of it hard to believe. If we're panicking about a Trump presidency, I don't doubt that Obama isn't very happy about it either, regardless of what he says in public to smooth things over.

Regina Phalange
11-15-2016, 10:45 PM
I'm not getting too worked up for rumors yet for things that have to have confirmations. People bow out, people get rejected. Congress HATES Ted. Maybe not enough to Garland him, but on a personal level they all fucking LOATHE him and would possibly spite their party to burn him. Not definitely or likely, but possibly. And people make shit up to make themselves look good. Wouldn't it be just like Ted to tell someone he was being considered when he wasn't?

And while I'm not a fan of Scalie, replacing even him with Cruz dishonors his memory.

Regina Phalange
11-15-2016, 10:54 PM
^ They do hate him which is why it worries me more; it would get him out of the Senate. And still get a right-wing blowhard on the SCOTUS.

Ugh, how much hate do they have, assuming it's not him making shit up? Hate him enough to get rid of him, hate him enough to keep him from greater honor?

I do believe if our country survives the next few years we're going to owe a big debt of gratitude to Republican in-fighting and petty squabbles over power.

Zippo
11-15-2016, 11:05 PM
Theresa May condemns 'global elite' while dining with men in white tie, ermine, and two guys on gold thrones (https://www.indy100.com/article/theresa-may-just-attacked-the-global-elite-while-dining-with-men-in-white-tie-ermine-and-golden-7418111)

Russia, Iran plan $10bn arms supply to Tehran
(https://www.rt.com/news/366871-russia-iran-weapons-delivery/)
Trump to Brand China Currency Manipulator, Ex-Treasury Aide Says (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-09/trump-to-brand-china-currency-manipulator-treasury-veteran-says)

5 things you should know about the South China Sea conflict (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/5-things-didnt-know-south-china-sea-conflict/)

US army and CIA may be guilty of war crimes in Afghanistan, says ICC (https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/nov/15/us-army-and-cia-may-be-guilty-of-war-crimes-afghanistan-says-icc)

The Wisdom of the Hague's South China Sea Decision (http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-wisdom-of-the-hagues-south-china-sea-decision-1468943819)

Duterte's pivot to China foresaw Trump presidency – Palace (http://www.rappler.com/nation/152055-duterte-china-pivot-foresaw-trump-presidency)

North Korea does not care who is president of United States (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-northkorea-idUSKBN13A2GS?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews)

Top Isis commander calls Donald Trump a 'complete maniac' (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/top-isis-commander-calls-donald-trump-a-complete-maniac-a7417986.html)

Digesting The Impact Of Trump's Upset On Markets (http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2016/11/15/digesting-the-impact-of-trumps-upset-on-markets/#363a0e451cda)

The Antichrist (http://www.theopedia.com/antichrist)

Trump believes in God, but hasn't sought forgiveness (http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/trump-has-never-sought-forgiveness/)

Mansions in Heaven? (http://www.wor.org/book/3745/mansions-in-heaven)

Twitter Moments: Day One in Trump's America (http://mashable.com/2016/11/10/twitter-moments-day-one-trumps-america/)

And Now a Word From the Alt-Left (http://billmoyers.com/story/now-word-alt-left/)

Zippo
11-15-2016, 11:25 PM
China will soon trump America: The country is now the global leader in climate change reform (http://www.salon.com/2016/11/15/china-is-now-the-global-leader-in-climate-change-reform/)

Zippo
11-15-2016, 11:45 PM
Can the “Secret Government” Save Us? (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/11/can_the_secret_government_save_us_from_donald_trump.html)

MTC
11-15-2016, 11:58 PM
A full week since election day, how is everyone doing with relatives and friends, neighbors, coworkers?

Friends: One of my very liberal friends has been lashing out angrily at all the wrong people (other friends, wait staff, other random people). I finally had to tell him to knock it off and to save that energy for something useful down the road or he's going to give himself heart failure. There's a long war in front of us. I apologized to several people he lost his shit with because wtf dude.

Coworkers: Ready to kill them. I never thought the people I work with in public education were so fucking stupid. I now question their ability to teach.

Neighbors: Couldn't be bothered before the election. Can't be bothered now.

.chris
11-16-2016, 12:04 AM
It has been really interesting to watch people's reaction to this. I've been learning a lot about the people around me lately. I had dinner with some old friends the other night and I was shocked at some of the things coming out of their mouths. It has made me really consider whether I ever want to spend time with them again.

Homogenik
11-16-2016, 12:37 AM
China will soon trump America: The country is now the global leader in climate change reform (http://www.salon.com/2016/11/15/china-is-now-the-global-leader-in-climate-change-reform/)

Now that's hilarious.

太不好意思了!

uncanny hats
11-16-2016, 12:49 AM
Friends: One of my very liberal friends has been lashing out angrily at all the wrong people (other friends, wait staff, other random people). I finally had to tell him to knock it off and to save that energy for something useful down the road or he's going to give himself heart failure. There's a long war in front of us. I apologized to several people he lost his shit with because wtf dude.

Coworkers: Ready to kill them. I never thought the people I work with in public education were so fucking stupid. I now question their ability to teach.

Neighbors: Couldn't be bothered before the election. Can't be bothered now.

My coworkers are all still mourning. My neighbors are too. My friends are in the city are busy. The ones back home are really sick and tired of people talking about Trump as a racist. In particular, white mothers of biracial children. And they really really want people to stop saying Trump is racist because for them anything is racist to liberals...that any time they don't get their way it's either sexist, racist, or homophobic. And they really see it as abusive. One friend was all like "there were hate crimes all year and no one reported them until after the election." When I pointed out that the ones being reported now we're specifically people referencing Trump, she "not the majority, however you could say the same about the opposing side."

edit since she's just responded: She thinks the constant berating and judgement from our side is flatly abusive, and that's there's a double standard where Clinton supporters think they can mean to Trump supporters but not the other way around.

Part of me wants to care but it's like: quit diminishing our fears and maybe we won't berate you. But our fears to them are simply delusional.

Puddles
11-16-2016, 01:11 AM
Well.... to be fair about the hate crimes, they really do seem to have spiked since the election (which is not surprising - see the Brexit precedent). I believe the numbers will eventually back that up. The 67% rise in hate crimes against Muslims in 2015 are being reported on after the election because the FBI just released those statistics.

(BTW, if you think the 2015 numbers were bad, just wait until lthe 2016 numbers are released...)

Andyland
11-16-2016, 01:26 AM
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/15025525_10157892246910454_4479172633478009455_o.jpg

uncanny hats
11-16-2016, 02:24 AM
Well.... to be fair about the hate crimes, they really do seem to have spiked since the election (which is not surprising - see the Brexit precedent). I believe the numbers will eventually back that up. The 67% rise in hate crimes against Muslims in 2015 are being reported on after the election because the FBI just released those statistics.

(BTW, if you think the 2015 numbers were bad, just wait until lthe 2016 numbers are released...)

Right. But what they want is for us to acknowledge hate against them. I had to explain to someone yesterday that just because I speak against hate done in Trump's name doesn't mean that I think all Trump voters are fascists. Just that I was always worried that with Trump's election the far-right was going to have their coming out party. And boy are they. Apparently, Richard Spencer is being talked about major media outlets? Linking him to Bannon? And to be honest I tried real hard to source a quote by Bannon for NPI and nothing. More fake news. And today, in workshop everyone was talking about a lack of empathy for the white working class and while that should make me happy, let's not forget that majority of the economically privileged voted for Trump. The white working class is like some soccer mom thing. Enough of them could have maybe swung the election but the the majority of the poorest whites still voted Clinton.

Regina Phalange
11-16-2016, 02:28 AM
And today, in workshop everyone was talking about a lack of empathy for the white working class and while that should make me happy, let's not forget that majority of the economically privileged voted for Trump.

I read a long storify thing today that I don't know where it is now where he made a good point about black working class people came out for Hillary, so it seems to indicate the difference is going to have a LOT to do with racism, sexism, etc. Like if they have the same economic concerns, why would they vote for two wildly different candidates?

Puddles
11-16-2016, 02:31 AM
Right. But what they want is for us to acknowledge hate against them. I had to explain to someone yesterday that just because I speak against hate done in Trump's name doesn't mean that I think all Trump voters are fascists. Just that I was always worried that with Trump's election the far-right was going to have their coming out party. And boy are they. Apparently, Richard Spencer is being talked about major media outlets? Linking him to Bannon? And to be honest I tried real hard to source a quote by Bannon for NPI and nothing. More fake news. And today, in workshop everyone was talking about a lack of empathy for the white working class and while that should make me happy, let's not forget that majority of the economically privileged voted for Trump. The white working class is like some soccer mom thing. Enough of them could have maybe swung the election but the the majority of the poorest whites still voted Clinton.

Interested to know what you (or anyone else for that matter) thinks of this article by Jamelle Bouie, which has created some backlash: There Is No Such Thing as a Good Trump Voter (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/11/there_is_no_such_thing_as_a_good_trump_voter.html)

Regina Phalange
11-16-2016, 02:50 AM
Interested to know what you (or anyone else for that matter) thinks of this article by Jamelle Bouie, which has created some backlash: There Is No Such Thing as a Good Trump Voter (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/11/there_is_no_such_thing_as_a_good_trump_voter.html)

I loved it.


Millions of Americans are justifiably afraid of what they’ll face under a Trump administration. If any group demands our support and sympathy, it’s these people, not the Americans who backed Trump and his threat of state-sanctioned violence against Hispanic immigrants and Muslim Americans. All the solicitude, outrage, and moral telepathy being deployed in defense of Trump supporters—who voted for a racist who promised racist outcomes—is perverse, bordering on abhorrent.

Oh, your feelings are hurt by being called a racist for VOTING FOR A RACIST? Too bad. I'm not crazy about the liberal tendency to always shame, to always fling about more "elite" words and concepts like privilege or problematic to people who haven't take a sociology class, an American Studies class. But I don't care. I know it will alienate them but if everything else (talking, listening, fact checking) hasn't worked, then maybe just plain shaming is all I have energy left for.

uncanny hats
11-16-2016, 03:20 AM
I read a long storify thing today that I don't know where it is now where he made a good point about black working class people came out for Hillary, so it seems to indicate the difference is going to have a LOT to do with racism, sexism, etc. Like if they have the same economic concerns, why would they vote for two wildly different candidates?

Yes. Racism and segregation. And as someone who walks into worlds, I constantly try to figure out how to make that segregation smaller. But the majority of the people who grit lit or Justified and Winter's Bone DVDs at work are people of color. How the fuck can I get rural white people to read or watch anything about people of color that's not Tyler Perry or Love and Hip Hop is really hard. There are more people of color who have watched Joe than rural white people who have watched Atlanta.

uncanny hats
11-16-2016, 03:21 AM
I read a long storify thing today that I don't know where it is now where he made a good point about black working class people came out for Hillary, so it seems to indicate the difference is going to have a LOT to do with racism, sexism, etc. Like if they have the same economic concerns, why would they vote for two wildly different candidates?

Yes. Racism and segregation. And as someone who walks into worlds, I constantly try to figure out how to make that segregation smaller. But the majority of the people who grit lit or Justified and Winter's Bone DVDs at work are people of color. How the fuck can I get rural white people to read or watch anything about people of color that's not Tyler Perry or Love and Hip Hop is really hard. There are more people of color who have watched Joe than rural white people who have watched Atlanta.

uncanny hats
11-16-2016, 03:30 AM
Interested to know what you (or anyone else for that matter) thinks of this article by Jamelle Bouie, which has created some backlash: There Is No Such Thing as a Good Trump Voter (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/11/there_is_no_such_thing_as_a_good_trump_voter.html)

There's not actually a great deal that I disagree with in that article which is why wrote the piece I did on Saturday. One Trumpster has reached out to me as a result of reading that article. A Jewish woman who voted Trump. Another woman tried to butter me up and plead that we still be friends, but not actual reaching out. Zero dudes, though. Except for my fellow mountain trash. Who were the bulk of my shares on facebook. The rage is righteous. I called them really mean names on Wednesday and I meant it. But I have the privilege to walk in two worlds and have all of the privileges but class and I'll talk to them if hopefully we can change things.

Steve SFM
11-16-2016, 05:32 AM
Gaffney? Fuck me. Next, they'll be calling Pammie Geller. :rolleyes: At that point, they might as well bring fucking Spencer on board.


Interested to know what you (or anyone else for that matter) thinks of this article by Jamelle Bouie, which has created some backlash: There Is No Such Thing as a Good Trump Voter (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/11/there_is_no_such_thing_as_a_good_trump_voter.html)

Read it earlier, didn't care for it. Mostly, I don't see the point of it. I mean, many things are springing up that we need to pay attention to. Why do we need to go back and fart around with things like "good" or "bad"? What about good people who go bad and bad people who become good? Aren't we all a mix of good and bad? Why not concentrate on people who we need to help instead of finding blame targets?

uncanny hats
11-16-2016, 05:45 AM
Gaffney? Fuck me. Next, they'll be calling Pammie Geller. :rolleyes: At that point, they might as well bring fucking Spencer on board.



Read it earlier, didn't care for it. Mostly, I don't see the point of it. I mean, many things are springing up that we need to pay attention to. Why do we need to go back and fart around with things like "good" or "bad"? What about good people who go bad and bad people who become good? Aren't we all a mix of good and bad? Why not concentrate on people who we need to help instead of finding blame targets?

Mourning, though, I think is important and is often expressed as rage. I saw one person call for the wholesale slaughter of the wwc. Do they really believe that? No. They're angry. And they should be.

Steve SFM
11-16-2016, 06:34 AM
I'm plenty angry without needing to believe that no Trump voter is a good person. In fact, I'm probably angrier at people who DO have good qualities but voted for him anyway. Meaning, people who should have known better.

Puddles
11-16-2016, 11:19 AM
That article has produced a pretty big backlash. Instinctively, I sympathize with the idea that most people are cowards when it comes to acknowledging their prejudices (past or present) or taking any accountability for them whatsoever. I honestly don't know yet whether I agree or disagree with its sweeping conclusions, but at least it dispenses with the twin fictions that people are inherently good and that prejudice always has some underlying reasonable/understandable explanation (ex. "economic anxiety"). Anyone who knows anything about history knows that both those assumptions, which I do see coursing through a *lot* of "empathetic" media coverage, are hilariously risible.

Perky Compson
11-16-2016, 01:31 PM
If I didn't have a job that had a "boom" season like I do this week, I'd be in the same boat. I feel like I haven't slept in a week. I keep falling asleep and then as I drift off, remembering watching election results come in and reliving it.

JayPeaches
11-16-2016, 01:38 PM
I have to be real, I am not sleeping. I'm functioning, but just barely. I have to find a way to continue to be engaged, informed, and ready for action while also realizing that I need to be a mentally healthy and physically healthy person in order to do so. I don't really know what to do except go off social media for a while, which is tricky for a variety of reasons.

Yeah. Immediately after I voted last Tuesday morning, I went into a very, very dark place. And it just got worse as Tuesday evening progressed. And Wednesday I literally went to work in my pajama pants and a fleece jacket. I cried all fucking day. Total and utter despair. It was intense. It scared me, so when I woke up on Thursday morning told myself, "no more." I can't live that way. I've been depressed for a year, but THAT was a totally different level of awful.

I'm not giving Trump a chance (I don't know what the fuck that even means), but I have accepted the shit state our country is in. I don't know what, if anything I'm going to do about it, because I can't seem to engage in a healthy way. I'm either all fucking in and obsessed and losing my fucking mind over it, or I'm completely disengaged. I'd like to find a happy medium - hoping my therapist can help me with that.

Regina Phalange
11-16-2016, 01:50 PM
Self-care sounds so trite, but it is important. I was unable to exercise last week and this week I feel a lot better because I was able to again. Not great, not normal, but more functional. I'm making deliberate choices to eat a little bit better too. I mean, don't if you can't, but it helps me function that little bit more. And any bit I can get to keep from sliding down into the madness is essential. It's a marathon, not a sprint and we need to make it the whole time, not burn out before inauguration.*

*If I had to say that say that out loud, I would gave gagged at the last word. Ugh.

JayPeaches
11-16-2016, 02:08 PM
My husband's having a much worse time than me. He does not have ONE SINGLE FRIEND that didn't vote for Trump. Most of the friends that I hang out with regularly either don't discuss politics at all, or they're liberal. And by some stroke of luck, the majority of the people in my small office (we work for a large company but I'm talking about our work area specifically) are liberal. We were all a hot mess on Wednesday, and that was oddly comforting. So I do feel like I'm in a little bit of a bubble in that I'm not feeling the full force of crazy-ass Trump supporters in my face every day. One of my friends here is in sales, so her job depends on keeping her mouth shut about politics. She is having a really hard time right now, because everyone she encounters assumes she also voted Trump. I keep telling myself I don't have it that bad. But then I feel guilty for thinking that, because my voting is pretty much always based on what I feel benefits the greater good, not myself. So should I be acting under that same principle right now, ignoring my mental health? I feel doomed either way.

Mackerel
11-16-2016, 02:22 PM
I told my husband this morning that I literally feel like I've been through a serious trauma.

Today was the first day I've gotten more than four hours of sleep. I slowly brought myself around from the extreme reaction I had from last Wed/Tues -- I didn't feel back to normal, but I kept reminding myself of what a normal mentally stable person is supposed to do or not do. I almost felt like I had a tiny crack of insight into what a sociopath felt like because my emotions were so far away/so volatile. If I inadvertently offended anyone here, I really am sorry. I simply have not been in my right mind. I think I've passed out of that realm now, and I agree with everyone who said there has to be a balance. I sure as fuck need balance. We have four more years of this, potentially. We can't kill ourselves now.

Mr. Orange Clouds
11-16-2016, 03:01 PM
Thanks for sharing your stories. I too am feeling run-down, angry, and disillusioned. Self-care is a great word. I think it's important, now more than ever, to be who we are and be present. We can't hide. Our impact has to be felt whether in our offices, work places, friends, etc.

Mackerel
11-16-2016, 03:27 PM
Small proposal: would it help everyone if there was an "Tell us the stuff you're doing to help the cause" thread? We can list off something small, like donating to the ACLU, or calling a congressman, and listing it out and cheering each other on may be a way for us to blow off steam and them spend the day enjoying our lives. Just a thought.

like: [post28] TUS: the saving democracy edition.

Charles
11-16-2016, 03:36 PM
I'm plenty angry without needing to believe that no Trump voter is a good person. In fact, I'm probably angrier at people who DO have good qualities but voted for him anyway. Meaning, people who should have known better.

I think it still needs to be put in front of people's faces the idea of "you might think you're a good person, and overall, you probably are, but realize that what you just did is gonna probably hurt a lot of people". A lot of people I know are still hiding behind the "Well, I voted for an outsider to change government and help the economy" facade. That still needs to be addressed in the grand scheme of things. So YES, we DO need to place blame cause voters are still denying it and they need to realize they're part of a regression towards hate and racism so hopefully it they won't vote like that again.

uncanny hats
11-16-2016, 04:25 PM
That article has produced a pretty big backlash. Instinctively, I sympathize with the idea that most people are cowards when it comes to acknowledging their prejudices (past or present) or taking any accountability for them whatsoever. I honestly don't know yet whether I agree or disagree with its sweeping conclusions, but at least it dispenses with the twin fictions that people are inherently good and that prejudice always has some underlying reasonable/understandable explanation (ex. "economic anxiety"). Anyone who knows anything about history knows that both those assumptions, which I do see coursing through a *lot* of "empathetic" media coverage, are hilariously risible.

I guess, let the rage be rage, for now. The fact is that the media had the race (while close) in Clinton's favor. And she won the popular vote by a million. Many of my friends wore white to the polls. They took their daughters with them into polling places and were so certain they were making history. I have other friends who are like, "How are you so surprised that in a white supremacist society, a white supremacist won?" Kind of like that SNL sketch with Dave Chappelle and Chris Rock (http://www.thewrap.com/snl-watch-dave-chappelle-chris-rock-attend-election-night-watch-party-white-people-video/). I have an ex-boss from the Levant who is pissed that everyone's talking about being fucked over while she was virtually invisible in the Dem primary, if not simply someone to compromised upon because whether she gets human rights is complicated. She's all about talking about how the Dems not having any empathy for the white working class.

Once rage and mourning passes, though, somehow, we're going to have to find it in ourselves to work together to make a better society.

Some of the thoughts floating from the far-left are like these:

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15094497_366573180358808_8475931747002434071_n.jpg?oh=2f26e22ad3efddfe27d62cd4a1e30e3d&oe=588D99F3

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/15025296_10103817388130648_7822132396747356972_o.jpg

That's probably too much for a lot of people, right now. My guess is that it won't be in the future.

SweetPea
11-16-2016, 07:25 PM
I'm plenty angry without needing to believe that no Trump voter is a good person. In fact, I'm probably angrier at people who DO have good qualities but voted for him anyway. Meaning, people who should have known better.

I had a Facebook run-in with my mother and sister-in-law over this sort of thing last week (thursday)... I posted an admittedly angry/reactionary statement about my disgust with people who voted and showed support for Trump and his nasty ideals. That I didn't want to know anyone who would support such horrible examples of racism, homophobia, xenophobia, hate, etc... well, Mom and bitch-in-law took this to mean that I was calling them racist and such. SOOOO I got long responses from both of them filled with nastiness! From my mother it was a complete shock and I'm still trying to process how she could say those things to me. The Bitch-in-law was just as nasty, if not more so, and even took advantage of the situation and felt the need to call my husband "that whiny baby you married", because I'm sure she's been waiting forever to say that. ANYWAY, I haven't spoken to any of them since then. I'm somewhere between heartbroke and relieved that I'm in anyway shape or form interested in spending any time with them over the holidays. I've just cut off all means of communications with them... I just can't anymore... It was almost like they KNEW that their vote for Trump was wrong but they felt the need to defend themselves to me, like I want to hear any of it.

I don't know. Thanks for letting me vent. It's been almost a week and I still don't think I've quite processed everything.

Perky Compson
11-16-2016, 07:46 PM
I told my husband this morning that I literally feel like I've been through a serious trauma.

Agreed. Not to get TMI, but I'm having more sleep difficulties, crying jags and flashbacks than after my sexual assault. I hate how easily the narrative turns into that making us weak crybaby girly millennials who can't stand losing. Take care of yourselves, everyone.

Mackerel
11-16-2016, 07:59 PM
<3

The biggest parallel I can draw is 9/11. It feels that major. The day after the election, I felt exactly like I did the morning after it happened. I NEVER wanted to feel that way ever again.


Agreed. Not to get TMI, but I'm having more sleep difficulties, crying jags and flashbacks than after my sexual assault. I hate how easily the narrative turns into that making us weak crybaby girly millennials who can't stand losing. Take care of yourselves, everyone.

BIG GROUP HUG for Perky, Kari, and everyone else in here. Seriously. This is trauma.

I've completely lost my ability to have an orgasm since that night :(

SweetPea
11-16-2016, 08:09 PM
Agreed. Not to get TMI, but I'm having more sleep difficulties, crying jags and flashbacks than after my sexual assault. I hate how easily the narrative turns into that making us weak crybaby girly millennials who can't stand losing. Take care of yourselves, everyone.


<3

The biggest parallel I can draw is 9/11. It feels that major. The day after the election, I felt exactly like I did the morning after it happened. I NEVER wanted to feel that way ever again.


BIG GROUP HUG for Perky, Kari, and everyone else in here. Seriously. This is trauma.

I've completely lost my ability to have an orgasm since that night :(

So much love to you guys! It has been the shittiest week and the fact that I don't really see an end to this bs yet doesn't help much.

I'm trying to focus on finding little things each day to be thankful for now. Otherwise... well, it wouldn't be pretty.

Nick
11-16-2016, 08:49 PM
Add me to the gained 5 pounds team. It's been about 6-7 years since I skipped 2 consecutive days of running/gym, but last week was a LOT of junk food and NO gym until Friday. I'm feeling mostly back on track now, getting things done at work (until my mind drifts to President Trump), but I'm still on edge. I found out on Sunday night that my favorite restaurant (e.g. where I've gone on my birthday the last 10 years) is closing and I cried way more than I should have! Like, now I'm supposed to survive President Trump without the best mac & cheese on the planet?!?!

Andyland
11-16-2016, 08:50 PM
(I don't mean to be creepy, but now I really want to know who has the best mac & cheese)

Barbarella
11-16-2016, 08:58 PM
I just decided that the Trumpers on my husbands side of the family that I will HAVE to see at Xmas, will ALL be getting donations to the Clinton Foundation and Planned Parenthood in their names as their Xmas presents this year!
SURPRISE BITCHES!

Nick
11-16-2016, 09:08 PM
(I don't mean to be creepy, but now I really want to know who has the best mac & cheese)

Lobo in Brooklyn, Tex-Mex restaurant. Their other location is staying open for now but IT'S NOT THE SAME! They also have the best salsa. But we don't deserve good things anymore.

Steve SFM
11-16-2016, 09:20 PM
Barb, you need to spread that idea through social media. I think it could really take off. Although you may want to take steps to keep it anonymous, for obvious reasons.

Zippo
11-16-2016, 10:58 PM
To anyone who feels traumatised by this, and feels like it has been in a similar vein to 9/11, and feels like they are being shamed for it, or that people seem to be attacking them... don't allow this to defeat you. Trump is a sexual assaulter, and it has been pent-up chauvinism dragged out and dramatised on an international scale with this idiot's victory being the outcome. It will take a while to get over that and for any woman, ethnic minority, LGBTQ person, especially as an American, your identity is being attacked on a multifaceted scale just as it was beginning to be held in equal regard with white male "patriotic" identity.

I think the main issue with where the hate is coming from is that a multifaceted identity doesn't register with a lot of Americans. I have heard "this is a white nation" stated as fact. Adherents to this view cannot compute that there can be one person who can have national and ethnic aspects to their identity which cohabit in one person and must be allowed to cohabit with the national identity of America in order for the nation which they claim to be so patriotic towards to avoid failure.

The problem is that "Chinese American" (ethnically Chinese in terms of their family's traditional values which they view with respect and importance but are not personally occupied with, for example, because they identify culturally as American and that is what they are concerned with politically, socially and generationally - but such people could be secret Chinese agents) and "African American" (secret Muslim Presidentisl administrations) are very active communities, like the queer community, and contrary to what might appear to be the case, this matters a lot to white Americans. But it matters because it is viewed as external and mysterious and numerous, just like how they view women, or more specifically progressive feminists (think about why it was non college educated women who voted Trump). With fear, confusion and compartmentalisation of an abstract and diverse group, which is felt by non-white male (minority) groups on the receiving end of that compartmentalisation as a dismissal or suppression of their identities. But most people are mainly centred in their thinking and action and associations with their own identity. White straight men are no different and since the historical world order has not required them to do anything other than assume that their identities are as the ones in control, they view any attempt of any other identities to express themselves in America as a threat to America and specifically their identities.

Because what do they have to identify with? There is no double-barrelled, ethnic-national identity to busy their minds with. Their minds are instead busied with ethnicity as something which is in opposition to THE national identity (which just so happens to be white like them). An example is an intense opposition to militarised police under Obama, but simultaneously a view that Black Lives Matter is a rebellion and a problem and a threat to the national institution which is the police and which deserves respect and is authoritative. There is the automatic, singular norm of "white America", the history of which has been a celebration of being in charge and on top of the world. "White American" is firstly not as openly active as an identity, precisely because America has a history of racism (only because the entire world does), because it has never been oppressed except in the first civil war (hence the ardent preoccupation with this and particularly the second amendment); secondly it is a very immature identity- it cannot be European because of the nature of how America began as a nation, it views Canadians as basically a lite version of itself which is irrelevant and geographically mostly wilderness, and it doesn't even share a continent with anything other than some other countries which it basically views as actually the South American continent which it won its south from and gets its drugs from. Most Americans do not have a passport.

Culturally, the most similar phenomenon is Australia with its lack of political correctness but also lack of guns and open celebration of violence as a founding principle of its history. Notice how the singular "white America" more or less has a possessive chokehold over everyone else's version of American identity. Why? Well, why were Native Americans relegated to reservations? White America is very scared and ashamed of racism and goes through stages of repression and lashing out. Some even end up actively identifying with the philosophy of racism, i.e. Naziism, which they view as exotic and countercultural. That is why it is tricky to invoke racism. The second comic strip posted above encapsulates this. They are very limited in their scope for what they can identify with - it is why they idolised Eminem, who was a rarity in that he was a white man accepted within the African American community because the level of his talent surpassed the level of cultural appropriation. A lot of white American men are twice as angry as Eminem was, but not as talented and with their only cultural reference within which they can find acceptance and strength being that they and they alone are the backbone of the most successful country in the history of civilisation. That is obviously a false narrative but when one believes it it can be very overbearing, especially when in modern culture it is visibly not true.

Donald Trump probably knows all of this and knew he could win an election if he threw on top of it a bastardised American Dream: "I am American success and you can be too". But today's economy requires innovation and small businesses, not billionaires and corporations having the upper hand. Unless of course you are a corporate billionaire. Then it needs exactly that. The worst part is that Donald is probably not even someone who has racist views. He probably views the world in global terms, but knows that most Americans don't have a passport. But most Americans have probably always thought, "Why do we need a passport? We have everything we need here." The key is that they view modern America as being more than they need or can deal with culturally and the world as invading and breaking their nation and undermining their identities and making them poor. The main thing I would be pushing at them is that it should be agreed that he is everyone's President and at the same time everyone in America is an American despite their apparent ethnic differences. "Race" as a way of framing the world is actually disordered thinking. But the eyes and the character of white America betray the facts when it comes to race. Repeatedly focusing on how Donald Trump is not going to help the poor become educated or rich is meeting the white working class halfway and speaking to them in their own language about a case where eventually they will view him as a traitor, and that will be a very powerful thing. Rich white people who voted for Trump are educated enough to know that he will serve their interests and are perhaps his solid base who should be ignored and viewed as the true idiots, at least in terms of emotional intelligence. They also live in a bubble but theirs is a success story and so they are not interested in it bursting. The white working class are very interested in being released from their current bubble. But they have to realise that Trump is not on their side. If that happens he will not last a single term and America will continue to be highly successful.

If you want my non-PC opinion on the misogyny, I would really say having thought about it since the result that it was based on military matters in the current geopolitical climate. I am not going to go into that but modern liberals tend to live in a fantasy world where those issues don't exist as a threat to America and view the right's stance on this as paranoia.

Kala
11-16-2016, 11:28 PM
BIG GROUP HUG for Perky, Kari, and everyone else in here. Seriously. This is trauma.


well i'm glad you said everyone else because even though i don't post as much as others in this thread that doesn't mean that i'm not really, really furious about this Trump presidency.

i have been paying into a system FOR 30 YEARS that may now fail me because this asshole wants to destroy the lives of people like me just to save a few pennies while at the same time giving out tax cuts to the wealthy.

all my life i have voted democrat: not just during hard times but also when i was making pretty good coin because i always cared about the greater-good. i am so sickened right now at just how greedy people can be.

MikeEP
11-16-2016, 11:31 PM
I just decided that the Trumpers on my husbands side of the family that I will HAVE to see at Xmas, will ALL be getting donations to the Clinton Foundation and Planned Parenthood in their names as their Xmas presents this year!
SURPRISE BITCHES!

amazing idea.

uncanny hats
11-17-2016, 12:04 AM
After meeting Pence, Biden has weighed and thinks the White House will be in good hands. (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/biden-says-white-house-in-good-hands)

Zippo
11-17-2016, 12:24 AM
I also want to say that what matters most morally is that even if Donald Trump is not a racist, he acted like one, and it did not put people off of voting for him regardless of race. That is a chilling indictment on our collective evolution as a species towards cooperation. But it just means progressivism has progressed to the level where it is about to deliver or fail, and what better time for that to happen, because the most prepared generations in recorded history in terms of experience, wisdom and information are currently present on the planet. If you ever went to college or worked in a role or had an experience that you felt helped you grow as a person or surmounted an obstacle or were creative, now is probably the time that the reason for all that was. And we do also have children on the planet.

I think everyone on the planet should just get together on social media and vote green in totality. It would require a dramatic upheaval in our lives but maybe anything else will too, by the looks of it. And also we in Britain are very concerned about race issues in social affairs post-Brexit.

Plus, whether or not Trump holds actual racist perceptions, he is indubitably a sexist. And that is a problem.

uncanny hats
11-17-2016, 06:32 AM
DC Public schools walked out yesterday (http://https://twitter.com/harry_zahn/status/798631256074452992). That's the girls saying "My body, My choice." And the boys saying, "Her body, her choice." Not even Millennials. That's Gen Z out there. The New not-so Silent Generation.

Nancy
11-17-2016, 09:57 AM
I don't think he's giddy and I never said that. I think he's trying to be helpful and that's why he brought up temperment/twitter. Obama was able to do all sorts of horrible things under the guise of being a really cool dude. Trump is Obama's intern for now.

I know you're not deliberately trying to be unkind, but could you please stop with the gratuitous Obama slams? He's no different than any military veteran who's had to make tough choices amid the fog of war. Neither is Hillary. If the far left hadn't demonized both them in this manner, we might not be in this boat right now.

Charles
11-17-2016, 01:56 PM
Some of the thoughts floating from the far-left are like these:

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15094497_366573180358808_8475931747002434071_n.jpg?oh=2f26e22ad3efddfe27d62cd4a1e30e3d&oe=588D99F3


This is such bullshit. Oh, because Hillary didn't specifically say "Hey, working class white people, a lot who benefited from privilege for decades, we still care about you too!" people feel disenfranchised? Who do you think she's talking about when she discusses tax cuts for the middle and lower class? Get the fuck over yourself! You didn't lose jobs cause of NeoLiberal policies. If you have any sort of brain, you'd realize that most of the economic policies in effect were put there by Republicans. In reality, you lost jobs due to the natural process of capitalism and globalism.
The irony, all those lazy people taking advantage of government via welfare you seem to despise...what the fuck do you think you're doing? Waiting for Trump welfare to get your old jobs back. How bout you stop waiting for the government to hand you a job, learn a new trade and get back to work? It's super simple, isn't it?

uncanny hats
11-17-2016, 02:28 PM
This is such bullshit. Oh, because Hillary didn't specifically say "Hey, working class white people, a lot who benefited from privilege for decades, we still care about you too!" people feel disenfranchised? Who do you think she's talking about when she discusses tax cuts for the middle and lower class? Get the fuck over yourself! You didn't lose jobs cause of NeoLiberal policies. If you have any sort of brain, you'd realize that most of the economic policies in effect were put there by Republicans. In reality, you lost jobs due to the natural process of capitalism and globalism.
The irony, all those lazy people taking advantage of government via welfare you seem to despise...what the fuck do you think you're doing? Waiting for Trump welfare to get your old jobs back. How bout you stop waiting for the government to hand you a job, learn a new trade and get back to work? It's super simple, isn't it?

Uh. Those aren't about Hillary. Those are about individuals. Political action isn't just voting and donating money. Political action is also engaging people and getting out of your comfort zone.

Regina Phalange
11-17-2016, 07:17 PM
This... is also not normal. (https://twitter.com/RosieGray/status/799333752828637185)



ETA: On TPM (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/donald-trump-to-take-victory-tour?utm_content=buffercd69b&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer) now, too:

Oh man if he thought the protests were out of hand on Wednesday and Thursday last week, can you imagine his awful orange face when he's not at a private function and gets booed? And demonstrated against?

But also am afraid that this is (I think we've talked about it here) pushing us to act stupid, to discredit us. Those crybabies can't accept the results and look at their riots.

He's so invested in people liking him, having validation. How is his fragile ego going to cope with NOT being in the campaign bubble? His audiences were pretty narrow. He can't avoid dissent without opening the access can of worms. Like if he does only private events, only certain people can get into public ones... Not all of the press will be all over him, but some will. What kind of temper tantrum will he throw when he sees his polls are probably never going to be very high (oh please, never let them get too high because that means he did something terrible)? He already has the worst elect polling numbers, comparing ea PEOTUS at this point after the election.

entropy
11-17-2016, 07:55 PM
But also am afraid that this is (I think we've talked about it here) pushing us to act stupid, to discredit us. Those crybabies can't accept the results and look at their riots.
.

Dude! I am so tired of that argument. The tea party was born out of a racist reaction to Barack Obama being in the White House! I also remember stupid jokes about it now being a Black House. I also remember people hanging flags upside down, noose imagery, etc.

uncanny hats
11-17-2016, 08:03 PM
So a friend pointed this out to me on fb
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154105628427336&id=545882335



Re: Muslim Registries

When 9/11 happened, the Muslim communities I lived in did register. Many individuals went and signed up for what was known as NSEERS or the National Security Entry-Exit Registration System.

The groups they targeted were as follows

Group 1: Iran, Iraq, Libya, Sudan or Syria
Group 2: Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Eritrea, Lebanon, Morocco, North Korea, Oman, Qatar, Somalia, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates, Yemen
Group 3: Pakistan, Saudi Arabia
Group 4: Bangladesh, Egypt, Indonesia, Jordan, Kuwait

At least 110,534 individuals registered from which at least 10,000 people were placed in deportation proceedings. (Source; http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/special-registration-program/)

There were many Muslim immigrants who went to register because they felt if they didn't do anything wrong, after all what could have happened. They were deported. Some were arrested. Others were thrown in prisons. Some were used for entrapments and preemptive prosecutions and the state successfully destroyed local communities.

I have seen many people share that if a Registry happened, they would show up.

I would like to clarify, this has happened, and you didn't show up. On the contrary many supported all of these efforts under the post 9/11 policies.

Moreover, if this happens again where millions of Muslims are asked to register, even if you registered and don't belong in the target groups, you aren't going to be targeted. If you do want to be an ally, then I better see you all shut down these offices and registration sites and demand that these are spaces of refuge where there will be ZERO local compliance with such draconian policies. IF you aren't Muslim, I also expect you ALL to publicly and continuously condemn such actions and shut down every office, if you work for such organizations, leave your job, and refuse to partake in this machinery.

SMMY
11-17-2016, 08:09 PM
My fear is that someone will take it upon themselves to act, in a violent manner. Just as I was worried about someone attempting to assassinate Obama in office, I'm equally concerned that someone will try to do the same with Trump. If that were to happen, I can't imagine what impact that would have on our country. I despise the thought of President Trump as much as anyone, I just don't want to see him become a martyr for the alt-right cause. I agree that we need to speak and act out, but also keep true to our principles and not become the left equivalent of the tea party. We're better than that.

EnjoyJoy
11-18-2016, 01:43 PM
Not a comforting view from the outside, either... :( Sorry guys. So, so, sorry. If there's anything that can be done by non-US citizens from outside the US please let us know.

Mr. Orange Clouds
11-18-2016, 01:46 PM
Not a comforting view from the outside, either... :( Sorry guys. So, so, sorry. If there's anything that can be done by non-US citizens from outside the US please let us know.

Please consider a donation to the ACLU, Planned Parenthood, or other liberal organizations. It's going to cost a lot of money to do battle with these DEPLORABLES (yes, I said it, cause that's what they are). And with the Trump/Ryan tax cuts coming for the rich, they're going to have even more money to invest in buying elections down to state and local levels.

EnjoyJoy
11-18-2016, 01:57 PM
Please consider a donation to the ACLU, Planned Parenthood, or other liberal organizations. It's going to cost a lot of money to do battle with these DEPLORABLES (yes, I said it, cause that's what they are). And with the Trump/Ryan tax cuts coming for the rich, they're going to have even more money to invest in buying elections down to state and local levels.

Cool, I'll see what I can do, they wouldn't let me donate to Hillary's campaign cause only US Citizens/Green Card Holders could, but maybe it'll be different for these other organisations. If I can I'll definitely send some money once in a while.

Perky Compson
11-18-2016, 01:59 PM
It's like anti-tokenism: instead of hiring one person from each minority group, he's hiring one person each who HATES each minority group!

Also, tmi but anyone eise here dealing with trauma effects having recurring nightmares of being assaulted/raped by our President-elect? Because that's a thing for me.

Mackerel
11-18-2016, 02:48 PM
It's like anti-tokenism: instead of hiring one person from each minority group, he's hiring one person each who HATES each minority group!

Also, tmi but anyone eise here dealing with trauma effects having recurring nightmares of being assaulted/raped by our President-elect? Because that's a thing for me.

:( I'm so sorry you're going through that.

Nothing of that ilk, just waking up at 4AM gasping as though the house were on fire. But as I mentioned somewhere, I've lost my ability to uh... take care of business because every time I try, I start thinking about the election. So I think it comes from a similar vein. I'm going to have dinner with a social worker friend of mine who's studying to be a sex therapist, and try to ask her what I can do. I can ask her on your dreams too.

Andrea
11-18-2016, 03:06 PM
I've been have assault nightmares, but it's always an unknown person. It's putting a 110% damper on any desire to have sex. Actually, I've been having panic attacks at the thought of sex.

Regina Phalange
11-18-2016, 03:13 PM
I'm not interested in a trip to O-town, but I don't know if it's related. Election doesn't help, but it might not be boarding up my girl parts by itself.

I'm over a week late. I'm not usually late. I'm actually on a crazy short cycle, so by late I mean over a week after 28 days, but it's 2 weeks late for my 3-week cycle. My hormones went into overdrive and haven't shut off. It's like semi-permanent PMS. Politics is my trigger issue that I can't stop my brain about so I'd definitely feeling better if this wasn't the week my body decided to practice getting ready for menopause. Usually when I get it, I'm still angry about politics but I'm in control of it, but PMS makes it control ME.

I'm not having nightmares. I was sleeping fine, but now I'm not for whatever reason. I shut off stuff and go to bed earlier and earlier but sleep doesn't come, even if the weariness is there.

I have diagnosed PTSD. This is really like a flare up of it. PTSD never truly goes away. It just fades to the back (if you're lucky) and only comes back rarely over time. So I literally have a stress disorder. I cannot function like normal people. My brain goes in circles and can't stop. I had to blast my music last night just to stop my own voices in my head. Not like schizophrenic voices, but the neverending loop of OH GOD WHAT HAVE WE DONE voices.

I haven't bought Pele yet. I can't listen to it now. I'm too fragile. I have to be so careful about what I listen to, watch. It hasn't been this way in years.

And I just want to find all the Trump voters and scream in their faces: Almost all the people who are more educated and/or more intelligent are you are freaking the fuck out. Do you not understand? When the historians are in full panic mode, you should be too.

I'm going to go take myself out for lunch and do some shopping. I'm really trying to walk away, distract myself, but my panic mode section of my brain is screaming

https://media4.giphy.com/media/vqrhOMTDAkglG/200_s.gif

SweetPea
11-18-2016, 03:45 PM
I'm dealing with low-grade near constant panic and depression. I'm on edge, overly emotional but still feeling detached, and just at a loss for how to manage myself. Just kind of going from day to day as best I can.

It's been a week now and I haven't heard anything from my mom since last week's Facebook blow-out. I unfriended and blocked her, the sister-in-law, brother, and dad... She's just liked a few of my posts on Instagram. But nothing else.

Is it wrong that I kind of hope it stays that way?

Mr. Orange Clouds
11-18-2016, 03:48 PM
I'll be brutally honest as well. I'm feeling a hopelessness for this country that I've never experienced before. How can Hillary have won the popular vote, and Trump gets to pick Obama's Supreme Court nominee? For me, this is an injustice on a global level that will materialize for millions of people across decades. And there's not a god-damn thing we can do about it.

I want to go to Kentucky and protest in front of Mitch McConnell's house cause I don't know what else to do. I started looking for any business headquartered in Kentucky so I can avoid buying anything from there. Perhaps someone more savvy on social media than me can start a #NoKentucky hashtag on twitter related to the Supreme Court? Or we start calling members of the Kentucky Chamber of Commerce with calls and emails?

iamstilljamiepoo
11-18-2016, 05:16 PM
I'm not glad those who have posted they are struggling are struggling, but I am glad that you're posting about it. I did not adult for the rest of the week after the election. I would get up and start the shower, then stare into space for 15 minutes, shut the shower off and go to bed. I feel like very few people I know, while they voted for Clinton, had that extreme of a reaction. I had to explain to my sister why I was afraid it wasn't going to be okay. She still told me I was nuts to have such extreme feelings. I come home from work and basically go straight to bed. If I'm not in bed, I just lie on the couch in the dark. I am supposed to go out tomorrow night, and I'm afraid to because I'm scared I'll get really hammered and that's bad for me.

entropy
11-18-2016, 05:42 PM
For the seven months that we lived in Phoenix, I felt strange when we went out. We were a mixed family. We are white but our daughter has brown skin, adopted from Colombia. We got all kinds of stares and glares from people of all shades. They was so much distrust in the air. Thanks Joe Arpaio. We felt we were going to have to walk around with her US passport.
We live in a different state now, but now I feel the need to carry around her US Passport again. I am so pissed at any family member who voted for tRUMP.

Perky Compson
11-18-2016, 06:12 PM
so much love and support to everyone in this thread. I really don't think we have any social understanding of how to cope with such an existential sense of despair and fear. It's like our minds can't process it all, so either we shut down or have symptoms in other crazy ways.

Entropy, I am saddened that you have to fear for your daughter like that but so glad for the family she has looking out for her.



Nothing of that ilk, just waking up at 4AM gasping as though the house were on fire. But as I mentioned somewhere, I've lost my ability to uh... take care of business because every time I try, I start thinking about the election. So I think it comes from a similar vein. I'm going to have dinner with a social worker friend of mine who's studying to be a sex therapist, and try to ask her what I can do. I can ask her on your dreams too.

If you don't mind asking! I'm sorry about the trouble you're facing too. It's intense and bizarre how stress fucks us up.

MTC
11-18-2016, 07:11 PM
^No asshat, we see all to clear what is going on.

Apparently I have absorbed all the bullshit I can 53 years into my life. Brain to mouth filter is gone. Those spewing bullshit are being called out on it. Very liberating.

SweetPea
11-18-2016, 07:24 PM
My mom just showed up at my office... and said, "Shhhh I just want a hug", gave me a long hug, cried and said "I'm sorry", and then patted my back, said "that's all" and left.

How the hell am I supposed to respond to that? At my office!? In the middle of my fucking work day?! *sigh* Maybe I shouldn't be posting this here... but I'm just at a loss... It's clear that she did that for her and not me or us. But I just...

Da fuck.

JayPeaches
11-18-2016, 07:35 PM
My mom just showed up at my office... and said, "Shhhh I just want a hug", gave me a long hug, cried and said "I'm sorry", and then patted my back, said "that's all" and left.

How the hell am I supposed to respond to that? At my office!? In the middle of my fucking work day?! *sigh* Maybe I shouldn't be posting this here... but I'm just at a loss... It's clear that she did that for her and not me or us. But I just...

Da fuck.

I don't know your history with your mother, but the apology may have been meaningful and it may have been for both you and for her. (HUGS)

SweetPea
11-18-2016, 07:53 PM
I don't know your history with your mother, but the apology may have been meaningful and it may have been for both you and for her. (HUGS)

Thanks JP <3 We have a weird history to be honest... I don't know what to make of it. She barely made eye contact with me, too. I mean, I would hope it was sincere and not a lame attempt at mending fences. It's just kind of too much, ya know?

Regina Phalange
11-18-2016, 08:35 PM
I don't want to get sucked too far into crazy land, but this (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/stephen-bannon-facebook-group-racist-material-obama-death-threats) was kind of scary, even though it's a bit of leaping and assuming.


Stephen Bannon, whom Donald Trump tapped as his chief strategist in the White House, has come under fire for his self-admitted promotion of the alt-right, a haven of white nationalists, when he was head of far-right Breitbart News. His defenders have insisted Bannon is no racist or anti-Semite. But Mother Jones has uncovered another clue about Bannon's political personality: Bannon joined a conservative Facebook group that has featured racist and extreme material. This material includes posts urging a military coup against President Barack Obama, featuring an image of the president dressed as an SS officer, celebrating the Confederate flag, highlighting a photoshopped picture of Obama with watermelons, praising a police officer who called Obama a "F*cking Nigger," and calling for Obama to be "executed as a traitor."

This Facebook group is for an outfit called Vigilant Patriots, which claims its goals are defending and upholding the Constitution and preserving "our history and culture." As of Friday morning, it listed nearly 3,600 members, including Stephen Bannon, who apparently joined the group seven years ago.

So yeah, it might not really be him, he might not be active in the group, etc., but ... when someone tells you who they are, LET THEM.

uncanny hats
11-18-2016, 08:50 PM
In what is not a surprise Kanye West says he didn't vote but that if he had he would have voted for Trump. (http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/18/entertainment/kanye-west-donald-trump-trnd/index.html)

Andyland
11-18-2016, 08:51 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/nov/18/motley-crue-vince-neil-presidential-inauguration-donald-trump?CMP=fb_us


Mötley Crüe's Vince Neil to play Donald Trump's presidential inauguration

Ryan
11-18-2016, 09:36 PM
I'm tired of Kellyanne Conway. I don't care if I ever see or hear her again. I'm being forced to sit through her interview on Fox News and she's asking why people aren't just accepting Trump's appointments the way they accepted Obama's. Oh, like his SCOTUS pick?

Mr. Orange Clouds
11-18-2016, 09:45 PM
I'm tired of Kellyanne Conway. I don't care if I ever see or hear her again. I'm being forced to sit through her interview on Fox News and she's asking why people aren't just accepting Trump's appointments the way they accepted Obama's. Oh, like his SCOTUS pick?

She's a complete train wreck and knows how to play the victim card so well. Oh those mean libruls! They're so mean to poor innocent Trump! Waaah!

TheTruthSeeker
11-18-2016, 10:11 PM
Just some general thoughts to add...

First off, my aunt - who is absolutely batshit and very similar to Trump (a narcissist and I think manic-depressive) - knows Trump from going to Atlantic City for many years, and even SHE did not vote for him and said he's crazy.

My client and dear friend worked for him a few years ago producing I believe it was his powerboat championship or the month-long lead-up event to it. She's a very strong woman who started a business in the 70s, when it was practically unheard of for women to become entrepreneurs. In the 60s, she quit on the spot when her boss would not give her a proper credit for what she was producing, because she was "a woman." She's tough as nails and probably exactly the type of person Trump hates. Anyway, he refused to pay her at the end (what else is new) and she said to him "That's fine. I'll take you to court." He said "Good luck with that doll. I've got an army of lawyers. You'll never get anywhere." She said "He's a horrid, horrid man - with no redeeming qualities whatsoever."

The first couple days after the election I was so anxiety-ridden, I began chainsmoking again (I stopped though) and took valium. I stopped with that, and then for the past week, I went through a mix of angry, hopeful and am now a mix of angry, scared and feel defeated. The nightmares began coming the past week - getting worse and worse. And I never have nightmares. Last night's was where Trump had killed three people and stuffed their bodies inside or under a mattress in a hotel in New York City that was similar in the dream to the hotel from American Horror Story. In the dream, it was out there that he had been caught doing it, and I had witnessed it, but no one did anything about it. He remained President-elect. That's sort of how I feel in real life. That he basically can do whatever he wants.

Regarding sex, I was having issues for a day or so, but then I began thinking how subversive it now was and how much it would PISS those very people off, and so now I can't get enough of it. It's like a big middle finger to them.

entropy
11-18-2016, 10:16 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/nov/18/motley-crue-vince-neil-presidential-inauguration-donald-trump?CMP=fb_us

bwahaha TACKY!

Churumbela
11-18-2016, 11:37 PM
It's like anti-tokenism: instead of hiring one person from each minority group, he's hiring one person each who HATES each minority group!

Also, tmi but anyone eise here dealing with trauma effects having recurring nightmares of being assaulted/raped by our President-elect? Because that's a thing for me.

Not him, but an actual person from my history who assaulted me, whose dream-self has taken on some Trump-like qualities he never had in real life, yes.

entropy
11-19-2016, 12:29 AM
I'd like to see Judge Judy take on tRUMP


https://youtu.be/eo2Su7CBzOw

Regina Phalange
11-19-2016, 01:03 AM
American ladies and gentlemen, your probable new AG (http://www.weeklystandard.com/jeff-sessions-behavior-described-by-trump-in-grab-them-by-the-p-y-tape-isnt-sexual-assault/article/2004799?custom_click=rss) on the pussy incident (band name!):


SESSIONS: This was very improper language, and he's acknowledged that.

TWS: But beyond the language, would you characterize the behavior described in that [video] as sexual assault if that behavior actually took place?

SESSIONS: I don't characterize that as sexual assault. I think that's a stretch. I don't know what he meant—

TWS: So if you grab a woman by the genitals, that's not sexual assault?

SESSIONS: I don't know. It's not clear that he—how that would occur.

Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't go high when they go low, but I am saying that I wouldn't lose any sleep over these fuckers got grabbed without their consent.

Steve SFM
11-19-2016, 01:55 AM
Jeff Sessions. Gee, what a good idea it is to choose a guy who fucking hates civil rights (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/trumps-pick-for-attorney-general-foreshadows-a-civil-rights-rollback/508172/) to be the new Attorney General.

Regina Phalange
11-19-2016, 01:39 PM
You and I were just discussing this, but I thought I'd mention it here. I'm wondering if it was done on purpose. Send the homophobe to a broadway show highlighting diversity with a gay hiv+ lead and see what happens. We're being baited. And I'm not saying he SHOULDN'T have been booed but I'm not liking the idea we do exactly what he wants. People who voted for Trump don't see the difference between private citizens expressing themselves and their hate speech. It reinforces OUR alleged intolerance and makes us look bad TO THEM.

I mean, I have been laughing my ass off since I read about it last night and one non-violent incident is not going to discredit us, but I'm wondering what we're going to have to do to not play into their plans.

Regina Phalange
11-19-2016, 01:54 PM
I don't think in this case it's as much to discredit as it is to distract. Nice distraction from the awful appointments he's making and the Trump U settlement for media outlets already of questionable integrity.

That too. Like we're all yelling about this and to be fair, we're yelling about Sessions and Bannon and lawsuit too, but what about legit news media? Someone on twitter made the point of how much time is going to be devoted to this on the Sunday shows tomorrow. Instead of ... let's say... Ivanka being in on meetings, unsecured phone line heads of state calls, diplomats staying at his hotels to curry favor...

Andyland
11-19-2016, 01:57 PM
I definitely think it's fuel for the false equivalency game that so many play, but then again, what isn't? "So someone painted a slur on that lady's garage, but the liberals BOOED the vice-president elect at a show! No respect!"

Mackerel
11-19-2016, 02:05 PM
yeah I agree - this stuff is a distraction, and garners sympathy for that side. We need to focus on the conflict of interest story - IE his FUCKING DAUGHTER attending a meeting with the Japanese PM. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.

to summarize: sending your daughter in charge of your Trump org to meet with a world leader sends a strong signal that you, as Japanese PM, should sure as fuck be mindful of a.) staying in Trump hotels in a "wink" to curry political favor from the current political administration by spending $$$$$$$$$ b.) being inclined to help Trump business deals in whatever policy/regulation you consider. It's potential bribery and looting on an unprecedented scale.

Andyland
11-19-2016, 03:36 PM
bwahaha TACKY!

TMZ says he's been uninvited. I am very curious to see which singers will be willing to be associated with Trump.

Ryan
11-19-2016, 03:38 PM
I'm sure we'll get a show from Ted Nugent or some annoying country singer.

JAE
11-19-2016, 05:23 PM
She's a complete train wreck and knows how to play the victim card so well. Oh those mean libruls! They're so mean to poor innocent Trump! Waaah!

The right are experts at playing the victim. These are the ones who basically threaten an armed insurgency if they don't like the way things are going. The alt-right as well are baffling - the people who write off actual trauma over the election and appointment of individuals who are hateful and actively harmful towards other groups of people as a case of 'liberal crybabies' are the same ones who lost their shit over their childhood being 'raped' because someone made a Ghostbusters film with female leads.

Puddles
11-19-2016, 05:42 PM
The right are experts at playing the victim. These are the ones who basically threaten an armed insurgency if they don't like the way things are going. The alt-right as well are baffling - the people who write off actual trauma over the election and appointment of individuals who are hateful and actively harmful towards other groups of people as a case of 'liberal crybabies' are the same ones who lost their shit over their childhood being 'raped' because someone made a Ghostbusters film with female leads.

And harrassed and verbally abused Leslie Jones, including setting up fake Twitter accounts. One spent hours hacking into her personal computer. 'Cause, you know, that's normal behaviour over a movie.

JAE
11-19-2016, 06:30 PM
And harrassed and verbally abused Leslie Jones, including setting up fake Twitter accounts. One spent hours hacking into her personal computer. 'Cause, you know, that's normal behaviour over a movie.

Cretins.

JAE
11-19-2016, 11:53 PM
Along similar lines:

‘Vote shaming’ Trump supporters is fair. What they have done is shameful
(https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/19/hamilton-mike-pence-trump-voters-safe-space)

Trump voters sure are sensitive lately. They’re upset that the cast of the hit play Hamilton made a statement to vice-president elect Mike Pence, and that the audience booed him. They’re displeased that their vote is costing them relationships with family and friends. And for some reason not entirely clear to me, they’re unhappy with Starbucks and decided to demonstrate as much by … buying lots of coffee at Starbucks.

The same people who wear shirts that read “fuck your feelings,” and rail against “political correctness” seem to believe that there should be no social consequences for their vote. I keep hearing calls for empathy and healing, civility and polite discourse. As if supporting a man who would fill his administration with white nationalists and misogynists is something to simply agree to disagree on.

Absolutely not. You don’t get to vote for a person who brags about sexual assault and expect that the women in your life will just shrug their shoulders. You don’t get to play the victim when people de-friend you on Facebook, as if being disliked for supporting a bigot is somehow worse than the suffering that marginalized people will endure under Trump. And you certainly do not get to enjoy a performance by people of color and those in the LGBT community without remark or protest when you enact policies and stoke hatred that put those very people’s lives in danger.

Being socially ostracized for supporting Trump is not an infringement of your rights, it’s a reasonable response by those of us who are disgusted, anxious, and afraid. I was recently accused by a writer of “vote shaming” – but there’s nothing wrong with being made to feel ashamed for doing something shameful.

I suppose I should not be surprised by this reaction; people are taking cues from Trump himself, a man who feels so entitled to universal adoration that he whines about protests being “unfair”. Indeed, after Pence’s uncomfortable evening at Hamilton, Trump tweeted that the quite respectful statement from the cast was “harassment”. This from a man who has mocked a disabled reporter, encouraged violence at his rallies, and spent a lifetime denigrating women.

The president-elect even wrote that the theater should be a “safe” place. Apparently “safe space” is politically correct nonsense when women don’t want to get raped at college, but vitally important when a powerful man who advocates conversion therapy wants to enjoy a Broadway musical.

Since Trump won the election, hate crimes are being reported at a rate higher than right after 9/11. Just a few blocks from my home in Brooklyn, a woman was punched in the face by a Trump supporter and a swastika was drawn in a nearby children’s park. We have a president-elect who just settled a class-action fraud case for $25m. But yes, by all means, let’s talk more about your hurt feelings and “civility”.

Whether it’s Pence at a play or your Trump-voting uncle at Thanksgiving, there are people right now who should be made to feel uncomfortable. In a time when there is so much to protest, so much work to do, the booing is necessary – shame on us if we ever stop.

Nancy
11-20-2016, 10:22 AM
A full week since election day, how is everyone doing with relatives and friends, neighbors, coworkers?

I made sure to schedule a hair appointment for the day after the election, just in case I might be tempted to hide for the next four years. Turned out I didn't find it difficult to make small talk with strangers. Friends require more energy and empathy, and I've just been too sad to want to see anybody. Utterly, utterly sad. But ... my best friend got a new cat, and that gave us a perfect opportunity to get together and have some actual fun without talking about politics. She shares my beliefs but she's not as histrionic as I am, and she calmed me and my husband down a good deal. He still thinks President Obama shouldn't hand over the keys to Dictator-elect Trump, however. I'm like, "I don't either, but what's Obama supposed to do?"

I'm very lucky to have tolerant family members who've been putting up with me sulking a lot and not pulling my weight with the division of labor around here. They've been great. It's a relief not to have to put on a happy face when we're all feeling so subdued and sad.

Homogenik
11-20-2016, 04:42 PM
TMZ says he's been uninvited. I am very curious to see which singers will be willing to be associated with Trump.

Paris Hilton voted for Trump and she's a... « singer »... She could « perform ».

Regina Phalange
11-20-2016, 04:43 PM
Priebus: Citizens of certain countries will be barred (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/priebus-certain-foreigners-will-be-barred-from-us-231681)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5y70oKbAKY

Ryan
11-20-2016, 07:38 PM
I just watched a Bernie Bro freak out over the whole "Pence was booed at Hamilton" story. "This is just a distraction so we don't talk about Trump U! This is so we don't pay attention to the issues or ask real questions about his policies!"

This person spent months screaming at me about the DNC leak and Hillary's emails, which were also distractions from actual discussion about policies. Suddenly that's important to him!

Perky Compson
11-20-2016, 09:14 PM
A list of republicans who we may be able to pressure into opposing Trump appointments, maybe? (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/17/6-senate-republicans-who-could-make-life-very-difficult-for-donald-trump/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_3_na)

JayPeaches
11-20-2016, 10:46 PM
A full week since election day, how is everyone doing with relatives and friends, neighbors, coworkers?

My husband just blocked the phone number of one of his best friends and begged me to unfriend him on Facebook after he started screen grabbing my political posts and group-texting them to Todd and other friends. This is not the first time his friends have referenced my political opinions in attempt to laugh about them, but the screen grabbing and group texting is new. I think it's really sad - they've been friends for years. I don't know what the fuck that guy was thinking. He's my first casualty. Otherwise I've pretty much just avoided talking to known conservatives.

Mackerel
11-20-2016, 11:01 PM
^what I can't wrap my head around is the aggression of it - your opinion must genuinely upset them on some level, otherwise they wouldn't go out of their way to make it such a big deal. And your posts, from what I've seen, are also very level-headed tame compared to a lot of the stuff on my feed. Is being a Democrat really considered *that* out there and crazy in his social circle?

Regina Phalange
11-20-2016, 11:23 PM
My husband just blocked the phone number of one of his best friends and begged me to unfriend him on Facebook after he started screen grabbing my political posts and group-texting them to Todd and other friends. This is not the first time his friends have referenced my political opinions in attempt to laugh about them, but the screen grabbing and group texting is new. I think it's really sad - they've been friends for years. I don't know what the fuck that guy was thinking. He's my first casualty. Otherwise I've pretty much just avoided talking to known conservatives.

I saw that and I felt so badly. I didn't post about it there cause I'm avoiding interacting on FB cause I have DRAMA of a different kind. I mean, I can't say I've never screen grabbed and been like "Dude, have you seen this?", but there's behind-someone's-back stuff and there's your situation, which felt more like Todd needed to put you in your place or something. Beyond creepy.

And I agree with Carbuncle that your posts aren't inflammatory or outrageous or too often.

I don't like how facts and other people's feelings are some kind of subversive statement suddenly.

spyk_
11-21-2016, 10:14 PM
I had a strange experience last night. I was invited to a Thanksgiving roast at a friend's house; we're both English but her boyfriend is American (Texan). I went along expecting to encounter mostly people my age and mostly people I knew. I took Pop Tarts and a Reese's Chocolate Bar (which, by the way, is the Antichrist of chocolate) as a joke, and considered wearing a 'Gay For Hillary' badge to lighten the mood. I'm glad I didn't. When I arrived I was greeted by my friend's boyfriend's parents, who were both over from Texas and who both incidentally voted for Trump. The atmosphere was a bit awkward but generally cordial. The food was excellent. But all I could think about was that I was sharing a table with two Trump voters. If this sounds like the alarmed cries of a mollycoddled liberal, remember that I hadn't expected to bump into two Trump supporters in a flat in South London on a rainy Sunday evening. Although politics had been banned from topics of discussion, the election naturally came up. From the other side of the room I heard the boyfriend's mother; "I knew my Donald would win". My Donald. The dad piped up; "In this election, you had to vote with your heart. We had two candidates as bad as each other and you had to make a choice".
Mother: "She was awful. She just wanted to be the first female President of the United States".
I wanted to ask why this was necessarily a bad thing, or point out that at least she wanted to be President of the United States at all, but they'd essentially fed me for the evening so I kept my trap shut. There were more cries of how Obama was an awful President and "did nothing for the United States", before the conversation moved on. I pulled my friend aside and we talked about how bizarre it was to be confronted with this kind of thinking in real life. I suppose I thought I would be ready for it after talking to family members who voted Leave during the EU referendum, but that was actually a bit different. Vote Leave was a horrible campaign, but it was campaigned for by many individuals coming at it from different angles - it's a complex issue (one that was far too complex to put to referendum in the first place, but that's a topic for a different thread). A vote for Brexit wasn't necessarily a vote for someone awful like Nigel Farage, whereas a vote for Donald Trump was unavoidably a vote for Donald Trump, and all of the awful things that Donald Trump has said, and the awful things he has claimed he would do as President.

The shocking thing isn't so much the vote itself, but that these two people were willing to sit in a flat amongst a dozen or so people that they don't know at all, and voice their support of so divisive a candidate. It wasn't even a conversation or a debate, their opinions were sprayed into the air and left to float around like noxious gas. There was no room for discussion. Politics aside, it was rude. The lack of consideration, or awareness, for how frightened Trump makes people, even across the Atlantic, is bothersome. My friend (possibly the future daughter-in-law of these people), said that it felt like they were 'asserting their privilege'. It's an overused phrase but it rang true. It was like being stamped on. I left shortly afterwards, politely but swiftly.

Donald Trump should not ever be separated from the things he has said. There is as yet no evidence that he is going to be anything short of a disastrous leader, possibly even a cataclysmic one. The sort of double-think that must be used to allow people to excuse away their support in this way is terrifying.

Perky Compson
11-21-2016, 10:23 PM
Oh goodie, (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/tom-price-health-human-services-trump-231427) Tom Price looks like an amazing and totally qualified pick for Secretary of Health and Human Services (http://www.newnownext.com/tom-price-trump-health-human-services/11/2016/).

He is picking the most despicable people. At this point the only thing that would surprise me about Donald Trump appointing someone like Tila Tequila as press secretary would be that she's a woman.

Steve SFM
11-21-2016, 10:33 PM
Former Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal is among other possible candidates for HHS secretary.

Kill me now.

Regina Phalange
11-21-2016, 10:45 PM
I'm reading a lot of criticism of Romney from the perspective that those who hated Romney as a candidate should not be relieved at his involvement in this administration. And yes, I'd love Romney to go away, but you know what? I'll take what I can get. I'm not going to get someone GOOD, someone qualified and sane whose politics and values and align with mine. So if he's nominated, I won't throw a screaming hissy fit (at least not based on what I know at this time) because while he's out of touch and a robot, he's not a foaming screaming racist and misogynist. He's problematic, but really, he's not VOLATILE and completely reactionary. He's practically liberal compared to every other person who has been floated out there.

Ryan
11-22-2016, 01:19 AM
How very presidential! :rolleyes:


https://youtu.be/7xX_KaStFT8

Regina Phalange
11-22-2016, 02:17 AM
So, the latest shenanigans (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/business/with-a-meeting-trump-renewed-a-british-wind-farm-fight.html)The Donald has been caught up in:


When President-elect Donald J. Trump met with the British politician Nigel Farage in recent days, he encouraged Mr. Farage and his entourage to oppose the kind of offshore wind farms that Mr. Trump believes will mar the pristine view from one of his two Scottish golf courses, according to one person present.

The meeting, held shortly after the presidential election, raises new questions about Mr. Trump’s willingness to use the power of the presidency to advance his business interests. Mr. Trump has long opposed a wind farm planned near his course in Aberdeenshire, and he previously fought unsuccessfully all the way to Britain’s highest court to block it.

It's a good piece that goes into all the other shenanigans these last few days, but what makes it a GREAT piece is that he is now is throwing ANOTHER twitter temper tantrum about how people knew he had businesses before those fucking morons voted for him.

I'm not happy with everything the media has been doing this year, including the NYT at times, but I hope they make it their mission to report (not pursue an agenda) on every fucking thing he does that even approaches the appearance of impropriety because it gets under his skin in such a way that can only be described as anti-Presidential. Even by Nixon standards.

MikeEP
11-22-2016, 02:21 PM
if the GOP is motivated to impeach him, seems like they're not going to have a hard time finding a reason.

Jake
11-22-2016, 05:52 PM
You can read the live tweets from the NYT's interview with Trump

http://www.nytimes.com/live/trump-at-the-new-york-times-the-tweets/


Julie Davis ✔ @juliehdavis
Asked point-blank about Nazi conference in DC over wknd: @realDonaldTrump tells @nytimes "of course" "I disavow and condemn them"

So ... what next? Do the Nazis keep claiming he speaks for them? Does Trump keep brushing this off? I still can't fucking believe this.

Regina Phalange
11-22-2016, 05:59 PM
I don't want to go into paranoid conspiracy land, but the irregularities in the election are troubling. And there's no proof, just conjecture. Here's a good piece (http://www.billjamesonline.com/fixing_a_presidential_election/) by the guy who started the whole Moneyball thing from a math perspective.


To say that a key point in a conspiracy is to avoid detection seems so obvious that it doesn’t warrant mentioning, but firmly bearing that point in mind is actually important in anticipating how a Presidential election would be fixed. So, let me say it again, the strategic imperative in fixing a Presidential election is not to get caught. That means taking the utmost precautions to avoid detection, and to do it in such a manner that if the fix is detected, that it is as hard as possible to track back to the actors and directors of the conspiracy. That will be especially important later on when I go on to explain how the choices would likely be made in the actual mechanics of fixing a Presidential election. But it is important, too, in explaining why it "looks" like the 2016 Presidential election was fixed.

And a New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/donald-trump-personally-blasts-the-press?mbid=social_twitter) story about yesterday's disaster of a meeting.


Participants said that Trump did not seem entirely rational about his criticism of the media, nor did he appear any more informed about policy than he had been during the campaign. When one participant pointed out that all Presidents and Presidential candidates believe they get bad press, Trump said, “Not Obama!”

Mackerel
11-22-2016, 06:29 PM
I have to say, I have a strong distaste for all conspiracy theories right now, even if they're on our side. Let another Deep Throat story come out from the Washington Post or another outlet documenting a real scandal uncovered -- otherwise, no.

Regina Phalange
11-22-2016, 07:01 PM
I have to say, I have a strong distaste for all conspiracy theories right now, even if they're on our side. Let another Deep Throat story come out from the Washington Post or another outlet documenting a real scandal uncovered -- otherwise, no.

I'm torn. Like not I WANT TO BELIEVE, but that if there is something there, I'd hate for it to be ignored because of exhaustion or bias. I don't want to end up sounding or acting like the left version of a birther, but on the other hand, it feels gross to just let it go because it's a fight we wouldn't win. It's literally down to so few votes in so few states. I know statistically anomalies occur and can understand the math behind flukes, but it's more about prevention for next time than being bitter about this time... I can accept that we did all we could and that there's smoke and no fire with tampering, but I'm worried.

Mackerel
11-22-2016, 07:39 PM
it's very possible for the popular vote and electoral college to have this big a disparity - all the voters in big coastal cities who went for HRC were "wasted" because they didn't count under the electoral college, which counts the votes of small states more than the votes of bigger states. It's a terrible, terrible situation to be in but that's how our system works right now. It doesn't feel like democracy to me either. I hope we change it someday. But I am really wary about conspiracy theories. I think reporters would be on that shit if it happened.

Rum 509
11-22-2016, 07:50 PM
He is picking the most despicable people. At this point the only thing that would surprise me about Donald Trump appointing someone like Tila Tequila as press secretary would be that she's a woman.

You mean this Tila Tequila? How prescient of you!

http://r1.washingtoncitypaper.com/files/base/scomm/wcp/image/2016/11/640w/Screen_Shot_2016_11_21_at_12.17.03_PM.58332cd2353b5.jpg

Maggiano's Little Italy Apologizes After Hosting White Nationalist Dinner (http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/food/article/20844314/maggianos-little-italy-apologizes-after-hosting-white-nationalist-dinner)

Or did you already know? This happened last Friday.

Perky Compson
11-22-2016, 08:12 PM
I knew she was a Nazi but not about that particular story.

Regardless, I feel like Trump's stacking his cabinet with the rogues gallery of Gotham. And in fact, I'd prefer fucking comic book supervillains to who we're getting.

I feel like it'd be valuable to know if there was election fraud, if only to send a message that this is an invalid regime. I want to believe that there's some conspiracy about to be uncovered and HRC will take the presidency and everything will be okay, but I know that isn't happening.

Rum 509
11-22-2016, 08:31 PM
^ Sadly, the only election fraud I'm hearing about is that HRC somehow rigged the election and that Trump actually would have won the popular vote by a huge margin otherwise. How convenient for the Trumpers.

Ryan
11-22-2016, 08:40 PM
Yeah, I keep hearing Trump supporters say things like, "Actually, if you count all the absentee ballots from military personnel overseas he would be ahead in the popular vote by several million."

Charles
11-22-2016, 08:43 PM
I knew she was a Nazi but not about that particular story.



Doesn't she also believe in the Flat Earth Theory?? I think she does. Hahaha!

Perky Compson
11-22-2016, 09:01 PM
Math is hard when you have the critical thinking skills of a turnip.

Ryan
11-22-2016, 09:37 PM
Math is hard when you have the critical thinking skills of a turnip.

Exactly.

Mackerel
11-22-2016, 10:22 PM
You know what? My bad. Apparently the reporters ARE on it. This just hit two minutes ago. Gabriel Sherman from NYmag is legitimate as fuck. They didn't say it was fraud, they're just urging for recounts bc of supposed irregularities. It concerns me that they're not going on the record if they really believe something is going on, though.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/activists-urge-hillary-clinton-to-challenge-election-results.html

God knows if this will get anywhere, but this is not just living in the bowels of the Internet anymore. And they may not find evidence of tampering. But I'm following this now.

EnjoyJoy
11-22-2016, 10:39 PM
Was just coming in to post that! I don't think she actually has a chance, but... it'll be interesting to say the least.

Andyland
11-22-2016, 10:40 PM
Also complicating matters, a senior Clinton adviser said, is that the White House, focused on a smooth transfer of power, does not want Clinton to challenge the election result.

It terrifies me that this could go unexamined because "smoothness" outweighs legitimacy.

Churumbela
11-22-2016, 10:41 PM
So, the latest shenanigans (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/business/with-a-meeting-trump-renewed-a-british-wind-farm-fight.html)The Donald has been caught up in:

" ...The meeting, held shortly after the presidential election, raises new questions about Mr. Trump’s willingness to use the power of the presidency to advance his business interests. Mr. Trump has long opposed a wind farm planned near his course in Aberdeenshire, and he previously fought unsuccessfully all the way to Britain’s highest court to block it."

It's a good piece that goes into all the other shenanigans these last few days, but what makes it a GREAT piece is that he is now is throwing ANOTHER twitter temper tantrum about how people knew he had businesses before those fucking morons voted for him.

I'm not happy with everything the media has been doing this year, including the NYT at times, but I hope they make it their mission to report (not pursue an agenda) on every fucking thing he does that even approaches the appearance of impropriety because it gets under his skin in such a way that can only be described as anti-Presidential. Even by Nixon standards.

Nauseating - especially considering just how incredibly unpopular the man is in Aberdeenshire. My cousin has been a student at U of Aberdeen the past three years and she said just mentioning his name can incite locals to angry fits. So much so that she warned all of us when we were visiting this summer not to bring up anything related to American politics even if asked! No one wanted that course (plus they already have an absolutely beautiful one in Stonehaven).

uncanny hats
11-22-2016, 10:46 PM
Anyone keeping a running tally of how many things Trump has flip-flopped on? This time? Torture. (http://www.theatlantic.com/liveblogs/2016/11/trump-pence-transition/507404/11798/?utm_source=atlfb)

Perky Compson
11-22-2016, 11:19 PM
Honestly, I'll take him flip-flopping on issues like this over him being a hardliner. I'll take him throwing shit at the wall over a calculated move towards evil. The problem is that he's surrounding himself with people who will enact the most evil, despicable, retrograde policies they can because they truly believe in them. I don't for a second think that once Trump is out of the way, Pence won't be happy to usher torture policies back in.

Kala
11-22-2016, 11:37 PM
Speaking of flip-flopping - The 141 Stances Donald Trump Took During His White House Bid (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/full-list-donald-trump-s-rapidly-changing-policy-positions-n547801)


President-Elect Donald Trump took 141 distinct stances on 23 major issues during his bid for the White House.

His campaign's constantly-evolving views -- often championed as a way for Trump to use unpredictability to cut better deals for the nation -- make it difficult glean a political agenda, or even a set of clear, core policy views ahead of his presidency.

It's unclear, for example, if Trump plans to round up and deport the nation's estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants or give them a pathway to citizenship. After announcing he'd ban Muslims from entering the country ten months ago, it's unclear if that policy still stands -- his campaign some times says he's expanded the policy and other times that he's limited it.

After more than a year and a half of stadium rallies, around-the-clock interviews, sweeping primary wins, and one stunning general election victory, the Republican president-elect has the most contradictory and confusing platform in recent history.

Ryan
11-22-2016, 11:39 PM
Did anyone read about his meeting with the media yesterday?


Donald Trump scolded media big shots during an off-the-record Trump Tower sitdown on Monday, sources told The Post.

“It was like a f−−−ing firing squad,” one source said of the encounter.

“Trump started with [CNN chief] Jeff Zucker and said, ‘I hate your network, everyone at CNN is a liar and you should be ashamed,’ ” the source said.

“The meeting was a total disaster. The TV execs and anchors went in there thinking they would be discussing the access they would get to the Trump administration, but instead they got a Trump-style dressing-down,” the source added.

A second source confirmed the fireworks.

“The meeting took place in a big boardroom and there were about 30 or 40 people, including the big news anchors from all the networks,” the other source said.

“Trump kept saying, ‘We’re in a room of liars, the deceitful, dishonest media who got it all wrong.’ He addressed everyone in the room, calling the media dishonest, deceitful liars. He called out Jeff Zucker by name and said everyone at CNN was a liar, and CNN was [a] network of liars,” the source said.

“Trump didn’t say [NBC reporter] Katy Tur by name, but talked about an NBC female correspondent who got it wrong, then he referred to a horrible network correspondent who cried when Hillary lost who hosted a debate — which was Martha Raddatz, who was also in the room.”

The stunned reporters tried to get a word in edgewise to discuss access to a Trump administration.

In a way, I'm glad they're stunned. Part of the reason we're in this mess is because of the "media" (if you can call CNN or Fox News the media) giving him a pass on everything, or at least failing to hold him to the same standard as other politicians running for office. They gave him tons of free press for a year. But then Kellyanne Conway had this to say (https://youtu.be/jRA5Zj0qGXk) when asked about the meeting:


"He did not explode in anger. And by the way, it's an off-the-record meeting, so whoever said that and mis-characterized it should think thrice..."

So are we threatening the media now? Are they only allowed to report on things favorably?

Reading the live-tweets from his meeting with the New York Times today, it's clear that he's still a moron with no knowledge of basically anything. I mentioned this on Towleroad, but it's like listening to a kid who didn't do the assigned reading trying to get through a pop quiz. Every answer is generic and doesn't really say anything, as was the case throughout his entire candidacy. It bothers me so much that no one just calls this out and says, "You're not saying anything. You're not giving us a substantive answer."

For those who didn't read the NYT live tweets, they are collected here in one place: http://www.towleroad.com/2016/11/trump-new-york-times/

Churumbela
11-22-2016, 11:57 PM
^
I think one issue here is that people do not expect substantive answers from politicians. While his supporters simultaneously scream their heads off about draining the swamp and getting rid of the status quo in government, they are perfectly willing to overlook his behaviors that demonstrate that he's dyed-in-the-wood establishment.

Nancy
11-23-2016, 01:26 AM
You know what? My bad. Apparently the reporters ARE on it. This just hit two minutes ago. Gabriel Sherman from NYmag is legitimate as fuck. They didn't say it was fraud, they're just urging for recounts bc of supposed irregularities. It concerns me that they're not going on the record if they really believe something is going on, though.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/activists-urge-hillary-clinton-to-challenge-election-results.html

God knows if this will get anywhere, but this is not just living in the bowels of the Internet anymore. And they may not find evidence of tampering. But I'm following this now.

Same. *tents fingers*

Mackerel
11-23-2016, 02:20 AM
Hmm. Nate Silver, Nate Cohn, and Paul Krugman, the Holy Trinity liberals always rely on to do their math for them, all say after looking at the data this is very likely a non-issue.

Steve SFM
11-23-2016, 02:59 AM
I've actually been keeping up with these stories about vote irregularities, and attempts to get presidential electors to vote for Hillary or anybody but Trump by following....Brie Larson's Twitter feed. ;l She's retweeting a LOT of that kind of stuff.

I dunno. I'm very skeptical about any of that working, but I suppose that people should follow up on it.

Volta
11-23-2016, 04:40 AM
Facebook just posted something from ABC News (the nightly/early morning show's feed) where Trump is saying he will not set up a special prosecutor to do anything to Hillary (this issue is over, of course, now), he does believe in global warming, and he condemns the ALT RIGHT.

I've never had such political whiplash. WTF? These were all main ingredients in the sauce he was selling to the people voting for him. Does he not care if he pisses them off? He already is the most hated man from the left. Oh well. Maybe his base doesn't watch the news and won't find out about all this for some time.

Regina Phalange
11-23-2016, 11:41 AM
I've never had such political whiplash. WTF? These were all main ingredients in the sauce he was selling to the people voting for him. Does he not care if he pisses them off? He already is the most hated man from the left. Oh well. Maybe his base doesn't watch the news and won't find out about all this for some time.

;l

Well, now we'll find out if they really did take him seriously, but not literally.

I guess some of the nuttier wingnuts are furious, but I'm sure the rest will either chalk it up to him being magnanimous or to being obstructed by the dems in congress.

I do wonder if some of the backing off is due to someone actually explaining his responsibilities and limits. Like "Sure, H pissed you off, but you do know that there isn't any reason to go after her, and when you leave office some day you're setting the precedent for the next president to come after you, right?" So much of the walking back to me doesn't feel like he's trying to placate centrists and leftists but more "Holy shit was I wrong about that."

Zippo
11-23-2016, 12:11 PM
Computer scientists urge Clinton campaign to call for recount in 3 states amid concern over electronic voting (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/11/22/politics/hillary-clinton-challenge-results/index.html?client=safari)

Zippo
11-23-2016, 12:20 PM
At least if she is granted the Presidency somehow then Trump supporters will have no choice but to get over it.

Nancy
11-23-2016, 12:31 PM
Donald will probably remind all of us about his generous words after Jason Chaffetz and his other cronies in the Hillary Hate Clique press on with the witch hunt. Those little scamps have nothing else in their bag of tricks.

Zippo
11-23-2016, 07:32 PM
Jill Stein prepares to request election recounts in battleground states (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/23/jill-stein-election-recount-fund-michigan-wisconsin-pennsylvania)

Just the most sensible, rational, mentally sound, educated candidate pointing out that she ran in the race and is not a Democrat and does in fact exist and can request a recount and probably will and probably has to and probably should have been voted for in the first place anyway.

Mackerel
11-23-2016, 07:36 PM
Jill Stein...probably should have been voted for in the first place anyway.

Nope.

Nick
11-23-2016, 07:52 PM
Yeah def no.

Zippo
11-23-2016, 07:56 PM
Why not?

In any case, here is where you donate.

"Halderman, the University of Michigan computer security expert, noted that this Friday is the deadline for requesting a recount in Wisconsin, where Trump’s winning margin stands at 0.7%. In Pennsylvania, where his margin is 1.2%, the deadline falls on Monday. In Michigan, where the Trump lead is currently just 0.3%, the deadline is Wednesday 30 November."

https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount

Also, maybe it is a good thing that Jill Stein didn't win by a landslide anyway, because this is basically an irretrievable situation:

https://fsmedia.imgix.net/c4/48/b9/5a/424a/4927/a1b6/f329d3a747ab/global-sea-ice-extent-nsidc-data.png?rect=0,109,1079,540&dpr=2&auto=format,compress&q=75

Green has never been a priority though, right? If you're going to turn the world upside down it might as well be via Trump and his psychotic KKK authoritarian bullshit, or via Clinton and her schizo, sycophantic/warmongering crap and blatant lies. Seriously, why not Jill Stein?

She's even a woman and everything.

Zippo
11-23-2016, 08:02 PM
Meanwhile, Trump's aides have indicated that NASA should only study space, and not climate change (http://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2016/11/23/13730540/trump-nasa-climate-change-earth).

The Earth is part of space. Every single atom is mostly space. What importance is there in studying OUTER space OUTSIDE OF THE ATMOSPHERE OF THE EARTH if the Earth from which you are studying it is being flooded because everything within its atmosphere is being slowly microwaved by greenhouse gases? Why is "No" an appropriate response to the idea of Jill Stein as President, however facetious? Why does Trump's team want to study something they know absolutely fuck all about (outer space) and ignore previous and future study of the dying planet on which they exist? Do they expect to find Jesus in outer space if they study it enough? Do they not care about being stewards of the Earth? Do they genuinely believe that burning coal has no effect on climate change, or do they know but they just do not care because it makes them rich? Are they interested in space because it looks exotic and are they bored by the thought of saving the Earth because people have been talking about it for 50 years? WHY DOES ANYONE EVEN BOTHER TALKING ABOUT "THE CHILDREN" AND WHAT IS BEST FOR THEM? ARE PEOPLE NOT AWARE THAT THE GLOBAL ECONOMY IS INEVITABLY GOING TO COLLAPSE ANYWAY? HOW CAN PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF ANYTHING?

Ryan
11-23-2016, 08:21 PM
Billionaire Betsy DeVos has been selected as Secretary of Education. She supports charter schools and school vouchers, and has donated money to tons of anti-LGBT initiatives including $500,000 to NOM to fight marriage equality.

It just keeps getting worse.

Steve SFM
11-23-2016, 08:28 PM
Seriously, why not Jill Stein?

She's not qualified.

SMMY
11-23-2016, 08:30 PM
I think of this as a grace period to filter exactly what Trump's admin. will be like before he is inaugurated in January. Every time I read something about his appointees and proposals, I tense up. This is the opposite version of "there is something for everyone to like". I'm sure within the first couple of months of his presidency there will be something for everyone to loathe, no matter age, race, religion, or gender identity they are.

Zippo
11-23-2016, 08:39 PM
Neither was Trump, and Clinton was qualified in the established way of things, which clearly is now defunct. What we needed was a scientist.

SMMY
11-23-2016, 08:49 PM
The Jill Stein recount thing; if it's legit and not just a fundraiser to cover her campaign costs, makes me wonder why she would demand a recount which she could not possibly win. I wonder if all the news over the couple of weeks have made the more liberals realize that there is a huge difference between Trump and Clinton. Just the news of NASA having to scrap climate research, might be the trigger for a push for a recount.

They might not like Clinton, but she wouldn't be dismantling the ACA, education, global climate change and a myriad of other issues that are dear to liberals. Not to be conspiratorial, but I wonder is someone like a Sanders reached out to her. It would make sense, because if Clinton were to call for a recounts herself, it would look like sore loser syndrome. If it's Stein, then it can't be seen as a democratic idea. Also, even if it's not successful, it could put a brake on his admin until the recount would be finished. If nothing else, Trump losing the popular vote will nullify any claims of his election being a mandate. Hopefully that alone would somewhat limit his ability to enact some of his more controversial policies and appointments.

Zippo
11-23-2016, 08:57 PM
SMMY, that is precisely what I think has happened. Clinton's supporters also ridiculed Trump for suggesting the election would be rigged, so there's that.

Kari, I am surprised to hear that she is anti vaccinations, but I will look into her reasoning behind that. Also, she has a very niche group of voters to pander to and a great number of them believe that vaccinations and GMOs are bad. If she wants to look into the vaccination-autism thing, then why not? If she believes they cause autism, I want to know why. I am not aware of her stance on vaccines.

How did she do everything in her power to get Trump voted in? By having the cheek to stand as a candidate who was not a Democrat? Or did she actively support him?

Ryan
11-23-2016, 08:57 PM
It'd definitely be better for the recount to come from Stein. Clinton absolutely can't do it, and I don't want her to. You'd never hear the end of "RIGGED! LOCK HER UP!"

Then again, people would say she paid off or threatened Stein.

Zippo
11-23-2016, 08:58 PM
And Johnson is an idiot. There is really nothing to say about him apart from that.

uncanny hats
11-23-2016, 08:59 PM
She's not qualified.


Age of candidacy is the minimum age at which a person can legally qualify to hold certain elected government offices. Most often, it also determines the age at which a person may be eligible to stand for an election or be granted ballot access. The framers of the Constitution of the U.S. as well as the drafters of constitutions for most of the individual states set a minimum age for a person to be eligible for elective office.

In the U.S., a person must be at least 35 years of age to be President or Vice President, 30 years to be a senator, or 25 years to be a representative, as specified in the U.S. Constitution. Most states in the U.S. also have age requirements for the offices of governor, state senator, and state representative.


She's definitely qualified.


Yes, an anti vax scientist.
That was fake news.
(http://www.snopes.com/is-green-party-candidate-jill-stein-anti-vaccine/)

I mean I didn't like her either but seriously.

Zippo
11-23-2016, 09:02 PM
Apparently she is not anti-vaccines.

"Are you anti-vaccine?"

"No."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnKQJVhIRlk

HumptyDumpty
11-23-2016, 09:19 PM
I heard that anti vax rumour shortly after Bernie conceded to Hillary because I was considering voting third party ( for a hot second) so I looked into Stein. There's plenty of evidence, including her addressing the rumour specifically, to the contrary.

I agree that it's better that she asks for the recount. She's probably doing it with Hillary in mind. I honestly don't have high hopes for it. At this point I'm just trying to come to terms with the reality of a Trump presidency, and trying to figure out how I can join the fight.

Zippo
11-23-2016, 09:50 PM
P.S. A woman's arm has been blown off in North Dakota because of a grenade, during the Standing Rock protests.

What is the point of Thanksgiving again?

Steve SFM
11-23-2016, 10:58 PM
Neither was Trump, and Clinton was qualified in the established way of things, which clearly is now defunct. What we needed was a scientist.

No, the established way of doing things is NOT defunct. We may wish it was, but it isn't. Hillary knows the ins and outs of the job as it is right now. And yes, nunu, I know what the legal qualifications are. You get condescending sometimes, and it's annoying. (Yes, sometimes I get annoying, too.)

I do agree that it isn't a bad thing that Stein called for the recount.

Jake
11-24-2016, 03:27 AM
Sooo as of this post, the Jill Stein recount effort is almost at 2 million (https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount) in less than 15 hours.

Barring any unforeseen circumstances (which hello, could be the name of a movie on 2016), this recount is going to happen if this is all it takes.

uncanny hats
11-24-2016, 04:00 AM
No, the established way of doing things is NOT defunct. We may wish it was, but it isn't. Hillary knows the ins and outs of the job as it is right now. And yes, nunu, I know what the legal qualifications are. You get condescending sometimes, and it's annoying. (Yes, sometimes I get annoying, too.)

I do agree that it isn't a bad thing that Stein called for the recount.

I wasn't really trying to be condescending. I'm just over with "qualified" thing, I guess. Eight years of hearing how Obams was not qualified on top of arguments of who the hell is qualified to be president in this election. And yes, I heard a lot about how Hillary wasn't qualified from the other side.

On another note, tonight we had Thanksgiving with my partner's family. I've told y'all in the past they're very Establishment Democrats. They all thanked me for voting Hillary because with my politics it must've been hard to do that (it wasn't). One attendee is a well known Constitutional law scholar and we've spatted here and there over tiny things because he's mostly centrist and I'm a rad. He pulled me aside to simply talk about the situation. He's scared. This is a guy who loves the Constitution and thinks it's a perfect document. The type of guy who believes the Constitution will always prevail. And he's scared. And angry.

The only shining light he said is just how active everyone gets in these moments. After years of complacency, we get to have this "oh fuck" moment. It's these "oh fuck" moments that remind us who we really are, he said. The most important thing he said though is that whether it's the slightly left of center or the rad left, we all seem to be feeling some guilt right now, as in "what could have been done differently?" Whether it's electoral strategy or activism.

And he said to skip that. That we need to fight with all we got, together, or we'll just guilt ourselves into being steamrolled by pure evil. Together was the key for him. Yes, he was drunk, but it was all good to hear. Both that not just super liberals and rads were hurting and his vision of hope and unity.