Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 80

Thread: Tori and Kate--Your Thoughts?

  1. #1

    Tori and Kate--Your Thoughts?

    Okay, so I've just recently discovered the musical world of Kate Bush (I had just heard a few tracks up until a couple of weeks ago). I was pretty much staggered by her genius and almost overwhelmed by how much great music she had come up with over the years (99% that I had been utterly unaware of). Sat in Your Lap, Babooshka, Jig of Life, Under the Ivy, And So Is Love, Nocturne, Moving, Pull Out the Pin, and on and on, the list of masterpieces just goes on and on (that's not counting Running Up That Hill & This Woman's Work, two songs I knew and loved from before).

    Anyhow, so the discovery of Kate's music had me thinking about Tori's music as well. I knew Kate was often mentioned as an influence on Tori, and I think that's pretty much undeniable, although Tori was certainly no clone and a genius in her own right.

    So I was curious as to how Tori fans feel about Kate and her music. How do their musical discographies stack up to each other? What do you think are their similarities or differences? Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.

    As for me, I find both of them and their music to have an "otherworldly" quality. But the difference, in my opinion, is that Kate seems to have gone into that world fully of her own volition, and she revels in it, radiating a natural sense of joy in much of her music. On the other hand, Tori seems to have gone into that other world as a place to escape the pain she's suffered in this one; therefore, her music seethes with much more anger and pathos than Kate's.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    993
    my thoughts
    Kate= Illustrative, narrative, Theatrical
    Tori= Obtuse, Improvy, conceptual (in both good and bad ways)

    basically Kate can make a song and have you visualize it in your head close to what she envisions and do this with every track on an album that all fit together.
    Tori on the other hand can not, but with her piano skills and lyrics when done right can transport the listener to greater unknown heights that can greatly vary person by person. But she doesn't have the consistency and narrative skills that Kate has IMO. Kate doesn't have the piano chops or enough live performances (in recent years) to talk about. Both are different women who have their strengths and weaknesses. Kate also works with more 3rd person points of view. Tori on the other hand involves her identity in a track one way or another.
    Last edited by pan; 12-04-2010 at 03:25 PM.

  3. #3
    the unhappy worker waitressboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Buenos Aires
    Posts
    3,536
    I can only find similarities between Kate and Tori in their first two albums. It's pretty noticeable the influence of The Kick Inside & Lionheart on Little Earthquakes & Under The Pink. But when it comes to find something about Kate in albums like To Venus And Back or even American Doll Posse, I find nothing.
    When he woke up, the dinosaur was still there.

  4. #4
    waitressboy, I agree that they sound less like one another as time goes on. But there are some things that Tori and Kate always have in common:

    • The vocal layering.
    • songs using imagery from the artist's own unique and immersive dream world.
    • The mythological and mystical inspiration.

  5. #5
    They're both very fine tuned literary artists, that's for sure. But while Kate Bush is extremely experimental/avant-garde, Tori is much more traditional singer/songwriter, even though she has had her moments with experimentalism.

    And I completely agree about the first two albums of both artists. LE and UTP owe a lot to TKI and Lionheart.

    I am a fan of both, obviously, but would never have heard of Kate Bush had I not kept hearing her referenced in Tori Amos articles.

    At first, I didn't hear the similarities, because I think I didn't want to . How could this completely original, beautiful artist have taken so much from another? Then the more I listened, the more I did hear it. Now, I hear certain things in Tori Amos' music that remind me of Kate Bush, but it's few and far between. And it's mainly on her first two albums.

    Kate Bush, to me, is very cerebral. There are only a few songs of hers that give me an emotional punch. For me, the joy in her work is the soundscapes and the voice as an instrument. The lyrics and meanings of the songs are very secondary. I like the way the music makes my brain feel. I still don't know all of her lyrics by heart, but the melody and instrumentation is ingrained in my brain.

    Tori on the other hand, is very intuitive and emotional. But I have a completely different relationship with her music. Her religious upbringing and subsequent feeling of isolation and subjugation mirror my own childhood, so listening to her music is like reading a really good book of poetry that punches me in the gut. Her piano is just as an important part, as it's not only phenomenal, it speaks just as much as the lyrics. I love the interplay between those meandering, liquid piano notes and the ethereal, 80% breath vocals.

    Of course, there are exceptions to everything I've said above. Honestly, when both of these artists are on, they're fucking genius. And sadly, when they're bad, they're really really bad. However, I could forgive both of them even if they released, in succession, 3.14 million Red Shoes and Beekeepers, solely for the genius that is their first 4 or 5 albums.

    Also, I think while Tori Amos certainly does owe some of her success to Kate Bush, she owes so much more to Joni Mitchell and Robert Plant, because I'm sure that's where most of her influence comes from.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Hannah.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    MT
    Posts
    2,350
    LOVE, LOVE, LOVE both of these amazing women.

    P.S. - Has anyone else noticed that in "Father Lucifer", when the third layered vocal comes in, it sounds A LOT like Kate Bush? Almost exactly like her, actually.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Cunter Fartlett View Post
    Kate Bush, to me, is very cerebral. There are only a few songs of hers that give me an emotional punch. For me, the joy in her work is the soundscapes and the voice as an instrument.
    The word "cerebral" is accurate to me. I also find Kate's work to be expansive and cosmic.

    But when the emotional punch does come from Kate, it's profound. "A Coral Room" and "Mrs. Bartolozzi" are two songs from her most recent album, Aerial, that I sometimes avoid because they drip with heartbreak.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ChoirgirlsInGaffa View Post
    LOVE, LOVE, LOVE both of these amazing women.

    P.S. - Has anyone else noticed that in "Father Lucifer", when the third layered vocal comes in, it sounds A LOT like Kate Bush? Almost exactly like her, actually.
    I know this wasn't what you were getting at, but if they've been secretly collaborating all these years -- that would be marvelous.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Hannah.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    MT
    Posts
    2,350
    Quote Originally Posted by Aster View Post
    But when the emotional punch does come from Kate, it's profound. "A Coral Room" and "Mrs. Bartolozzi" are two songs from her most recent album, Aerial, that I sometimes avoid because they drip with heartbreak.
    I agree. I tear up every single time I listen to "This Woman's Work". The only other song that really gets to me that way is Tori's "Winter".

    I know it's strange, but another Kate song that makes me really emotional is "The Kick Inside". The character and story that Kate establishes is so vivid that I find myself stepping into that character's shoes and feeling what she feels.
    Last edited by Hannah.; 12-05-2010 at 02:52 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ChoirgirlsInGaffa View Post
    I agree. I tear up every single time I listen to "This Woman's Work". The only other song that really gets to me that way is Tori's "Winter".
    I forgot about "This Woman's Work"! That's an even better example.

  11. #11
    After recently coming across the entire discography of Kate Bush I've decided that I like them both, Tori significantly more so. I can't figure out why they're compared though; they're no more alike than any other two artists who might be put into the same genre.

  12. #12
    Surrender, then start your engines OrenLovesTori's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    521
    It's funny because I was an obsessive Kate fan as a boy of 17, this lasted quite a few years. Started from Hound of Love, and grew to encompass the whole catalogue. My fvourites are highly concentrated in the first 5 Kate albums, and I felt she quite declined after that. Not bad, but much less genius. Plus she stopped publishing albums, plus she (almost) never appeared live after 1980.
    Then I went on to various other artists, lacking an obsession, until Tori hit me at about age 32 (started from Pele). This obsession is still on 10 years later... and I didn't gravitate from one to the other or based on tips from this forum or whatever, it just happened naturally. So here's another "proof" that though they sound to me quite different (the way I see it now), they have more in common than is apparent. I guess this commonality is their genius. They are quite different from most other artists, have very complex music/lyrics/vocals/rythms, and don't really fall in any category. I am lucky that I love both their voices.
    I will add that in my humble opinion, Tori has better kept her genius as time went by, though her albums have deteriorated on average. Each album - even the bad ones - has some genius songs, some more and some less, though many of the albums have some filler stuff that I might skip on a bad day.
    Add to that that she still publishes albums, and performs live like a demon with many HQ bootlegs. That too has deteriorated on average, but still some shows are genius even today. This makes her "genius catalog" (that I can play in a loop all day) much larger than Kate's, and therefore she is much more lasting to me.

    As a proof that they are completely different... my wife was officially converted to avid Toriphile status about 3 years ago (yay!), and connects most with Tori's emotional content, and the intricate melodies. But she will not suffer most of Kate's work due to the too-high vocals, and due to the less concentrated emotional stuff.

  13. #13
    ^For me it comes to this: Tori's worst songs are just uncreative or have a little too much cheesey guitar. Kate's bad songs are batshit insane and drive me nuts. I think that gives Tori a slight edge. Tori has at least kept within a certain range of mature and kooky whereas Kate seems to like jumping from borderline boring to completely bonkers on every album.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by OrenLovesTori View Post
    It's funny because I was an obsessive Kate fan as a boy of 17, this lasted quite a few years. Started from Hound of Love, and grew to encompass the whole catalogue. My fvourites are highly concentrated in the first 5 Kate albums, and I felt she quite declined after that. Not bad, but much less genius.
    But...what about Aerial?

  15. #15
    she said destroy Lágnætti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    The Grim North
    Posts
    6,235
    I'm baffled at the assertion that Kate's work is somehow unemotional. Her structures are obviously way more thought-out than Tori's, but her songs and indeed, her vocal performances are certainly riddled with emotion - in fact I would argue she covers a far wider emotional range than Tori in many respects. I think what may be causing some confusion is Kate's subtlety, more often than not portraying emotional states far away from simple, obvious yowling about broken hearts and more obvious attempts at tear-jerking. Look at the emotional palette on the ten songs of The Dreaming - rage, grief, paranoia, fear, emotional graspingness, sheer murderousness. How could anyone listen to Hounds of Love/The Ninth Wave and not perceive incredible emotion right across the board, from start to finish? I don't get it. The early albums are also emotional cornucopias.

    I think Tori is obviously the superior pianist and Kate is the superior lyricist, arranger, producer and vocalist. I also think one of Kate's strengths is knowing when to stop, when to pull back and reconsider, not desperately churning out product for the exposure and the money. After the lacklustre Red Shoes, she took a long time off and eventually returned refreshed with some of her best songs and arrangements in years. Tori's put out a string of albums bad enough to make many of her fans accuse her of wrecking her legacy and seems to refuse to take time off to rectify this.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •