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Thread: The All-Inclusive Madonna Thread

  1. #2101
    Senior Member grapefruit_is_winning's Avatar
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    Wow. I'm going to have to absorb that for a minute. Thanks for sharing.

  2. #2102
    Vilest of the vile Homogenik's Avatar
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  3. #2103
    Vilest of the vile Homogenik's Avatar
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    Whole thing


  4. #2104
    Hock...hockety-pockety? Joey's Avatar
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    I think that just might be one of the best things she's ever done.

  5. #2105
    Senior Member Jake's Avatar
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    Incredible! I totally teared up too.

  6. #2106
    Vilest of the vile Homogenik's Avatar
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    check here for high quality HD video of the speech:
    http://www.madonnarama.com/posts-en/...ptance-speech/

  7. #2107
    Camille Paglia has hit back at Madonna and denies she ever said M "set the women's movement back 20 years." Here's her statement:



    Ok, so that was harsh, but I can't say I disagree with some of what she said. Also, it makes me wonder where the "set women back" comment rumors ever came from in the first place...
    Living in my own personal Cornwall bubble

  8. #2108
    Hock...hockety-pockety? Joey's Avatar
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    Camille turned on her, though. I believe it was around the time "Confessions" came out.

  9. #2109
    worth a million in prizes .chris's Avatar
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    That was a wonderful acceptance speech. Camille Paglia is so fucking irrelevant no one should care what she has to say. I cannot stand her.

  10. #2110
    Senior Member Carey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SloppyJane View Post
    Camille Paglia has hit back at Madonna and denies she ever said M "set the women's movement back 20 years." Here's her statement:



    Ok, so that was harsh, but I can't say I disagree with some of what she said. Also, it makes me wonder where the "set women back" comment rumors ever came from in the first place...
    She said exactly what I think of Madonna. She's completely right.
    "If neurotic is wanting two mutually exclusive things at one and the same time, then I'm neurotic as hell. I'll be flying back and forth between one mutually exclusive thing and another for the rest of my days."

  11. #2111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carey View Post
    She said exactly what I think of Madonna. She's completely right.
    She's not completely right. Not even a little. That was an abusive, vitriolic tirade unbecoming of a woman Paglia's age *wink*. While I agree Madonnas work since Confessions has been more shoddy (not since 2001 as Paglia contends but that's up for debate), it stands to reason that a good part of it could be that Madonna's spent 30+ years writing about the things that matter to her, and it's harder to find material that is going to ring as both original and authentic. Paglia might find it ironic to note that her own writing seems to have lost its muse in the same time period. She wrote the original Madonna piece she cited for the New York Times. This one is for the Daily Mail. I'd be willing to bet that plays a part in her lashing out at Madonna, along with being denied the interviews she so clearly felt entitled to.

    I want to know how one can claim to be a feminist in one breath and in the next dictate how a woman choose to age. The social norm has been for women of a certain age to allow themselves to fade into obscurity without Much fight (see Annie Lennox, Cyndi Lauper, pretty much any of Madonna's contemporaries). Madonna is and always has been a work of her own making and the great thing about Madonna is that just when you count her out, she proves you wrong. If I've learned anything from Madonna it's that she's always going to challenge the status quo - and I think that's where she's been the most understood in the past decade. Madonna isn't twerking to be down with the kiddies. She's doing it because everyone says she's NOT SUPPOSED TO. Twerking or not, I have little doubt she will release another amazing album before her career is over.

    Guess who else isn't aging well by Paglia's definition ? Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, George Clooney. They've all had work done to retain the looks of their youth. But instead of being called out for it, they're offered the most coveted roles. Nobody is accusing them of chasing their glory days. You will NEVER see a closeup photo of Brad Pitt's hand analyzed on the cover of a magazine, nor will you see discussions of George Clooneys physique, and whether he's too sinewy. Instead Madonna has to carry that on her shoulders and the reason for that difference is because of her gender.

    The only thing correct in Paglia's article is that Madonna was wrong about Paglia trashing her in her early days, but she's been making up for it in the past 10 or so years anyway.
    Last edited by Adirondak; 12-15-2016 at 04:21 AM.

  12. #2112
    I was moved by Madonna's speech, it perfectly summed up her career.

    As for Paglia, Madonna has her reasons for not giving her the time of day, which Paglia took as a perceived slight. She's been on the warpath for years as M aged. The fact that she wrote her response on the vile Daily Mail speaks volumes of her character. Also if you're calling yourself a feminist you might want to not spend a paragraph focusing on an aging woman's appearance.

  13. #2113
    Senior Member grapefruit_is_winning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bongohead View Post
    As for Paglia, Madonna has her reasons for not giving her the time of day, which Paglia took as a perceived slight.
    Agreed. Where she says: "It is absolutely ridiculous for Madonna to now claim that she longed to ally with other women at the start of her career but was rebuffed from doing so. The media, in the U.S. and abroad, constantly asked Madonna about me or tried to bring us together, and she always refused." I'm like, so Camille Paglia is ALL other women? Also, "constantly asked...." really, CONSTANTLY asked?

    I also wish Madonna would take a classier and elegant approach to fashion and style, because that suits my personal tastes better, but the fact that she does what she does is not a character flaw.

    CP was really gunning for headlines here.

  14. #2114
    To me, a classic and elegant fashion style even though that may look good on some people would be at odds with who Madonna is and would come off as not genuine or contrived.
    Madonna started out on the Lower East Side wearing vintage rags and edgy sort of looks, so to go classy and elegant would seem a bit phony to me.

    She tried that during the Evita period. I never liked it on her. It just seemed very un-Madonna to me.
    I have to admit though I personally like more flamboyant and edgy type of looks, the classic elegant conventional Hollywood style bores me.

  15. #2115
    Quote Originally Posted by Adirondak View Post

    Guess who else isn't aging well by Paglia's definition ? Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, George Clooney. They've all had work done to retain the looks of their youth. But instead of being called out for it, they're offered the most coveted roles. Nobody is accusing them of chasing their glory days. You will NEVER see a closeup photo of Brad Pitt's hand analyzed on the cover of a magazine, nor will you see discussions of George Clooneys physique, and whether he's too sinewy. Instead Madonna has to carry that on her shoulders and the reason for that difference is because of her gender.
    I disagree with you on this. The reason the press points our her veiny hands, etc., is because she is presented to us as this:



    There are tons of examples out there, and it's obviously not just limited to Madonna. And it may not even be her fault. But women cannot be expected to look like this in real life. And the "closeup" press photos are only a response to it.

    That's not to say that it still isn't sexist. Because women are clearly photoshoped WAY more than men are. But that's where I think the sexism lies. Not in the reaction to it.

    As for George Clooney or Brad Pitt, I do not know if they've had work done. But the difference between their real selves and their "magazine" selves aren't nearly as shockingly disconnected as Madonna's (or many other female celebs, unfortunately).

    Some recent magazine covers as examples:





    It's obviously a very complex and frustrating conversation. And I do not blame famous women for wanting to look that way. It's the standard. But why is it the standard? And how can we change it?
    Last edited by SloppyJane; 12-16-2016 at 07:49 AM.
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