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Thread: Random Tori Chatter (oooilllll spiiiilllllllll)

  1. #9646
    Robbing the muse... Beelust's Avatar
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    I recall disliking SLG at the time (because it was covers?) and the sound was less Tori for me - I only liked Rattlesnakes really. Then I became obsessed with Bjork's Vespertine and Tori went on the back burner.

    In early 2002 sometime I was browsing through CDs at HMV and an extremely beautiful Tori song came on that I did not really recognize. It was Real Men. I went home that evening and fell in love with SLG.

    Scarlet really excited me because it was so different for Tori. This is when I started chatting on online Tori communities - and I definitely remember a lot of fans disliking SW for the AC sound and Scarletization.

    But I would agree with Ophe that Tales was the first misstep. The artwork I still think is horrendous - but most importantly she butchered most songs. And that Sweet Dreams is embarrassing and recorded so poorly.

    The nadir though for me was TBK. Almost everything about it. The cover art, the singles, the ridiculous lyrics and the music are all very hard to swallow imo. Sure it is different or kooky or whatever she was trying to do - but I am curious as to where her head was at - because SW was so strong and TBK was so weak in terms of the quality of Tori albums until that point.
    Robbing the muse...

  2. #9647
    Senior Member grapefruit_is_winning's Avatar
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    God, "Mary" was chosen as a single for Tales. That says it all. Horrible song in every iteration.

  3. #9648
    Senior Member grapefruit_is_winning's Avatar
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    Oh, and ASF is to blame for TBK. ASF drove SW sales, and she was clearly being pressured by the record company to double down on radio friendly love gone awry pop. Hence, Sleeps with Butterflies. It seems pretty clear that she was also struggling to find her genuine voice at the time, independent of record company pressure.

    That said, I have mild seizures anytime someone says TBK is her nadir. No no, her first unmistakably gigantic embarrassment was ADP.

  4. #9649
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    I’ve made peace with most of TBK. It’s a bit bland and feels rushed, and some songs aren’t worth trying to justify (I’m looking at you, Hoochie Woman), but overall there were still some gems that shined during their later live incarnations. I didn’t realize how much I’d end up liking Parasol, Mother Revolution, or Orange Knickers, even though they didn’t do much for me at the time.

    But I tried to put on ADP recently and I couldn’t listen to any of that. Any fondness I had for any of those songs seems to have vanished. I have enjoyed some live versions of Digital Ghost, and those solo versions of Almost Rosey and Beauty of Speed she did pre-release are amazing, but they don’t save that album. It’s her worst, most affected vocals up to that point. It ushered in a really dark time.

  5. #9650
    Quote Originally Posted by grapefruit_is_winning View Post
    Oh, and ASF is to blame for TBK. ASF drove SW sales, and she was clearly being pressured by the record company to double down on radio friendly love gone awry pop. Hence, Sleeps with Butterflies. It seems pretty clear that she was also struggling to find her genuine voice at the time, independent of record company pressure.

    That said, I have mild seizures anytime someone says TBK is her nadir. No no, her first unmistakably gigantic embarrassment was ADP.
    Agreed on both counts. "A Sorta Fairytale" is an extremely genuine song that just happened to connect with a large audience, whereas "Sleeps with Butterflies" was Tori trying to catch lightning in a bottle a second time. And yes - for all its massive flaws, The Beekeeper isn't embarrassing. It's dull and really unfocused, but there's still a lot of work that went into it and several interesting ideas scattered through. American Doll Posse is mortifying. There's no direction to it, beyond its complete and utter commitment to kitsch. It's not campy in a fun way; it just clobbers you over the head with its tastelessness, until you're totally desensitised.
    Last edited by BrotherNamedErised; 09-13-2018 at 01:04 AM.

  6. #9651
    Senior Member grapefruit_is_winning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrotherNamedErised View Post
    It's not campy in a fun way; it just clobbers you over the head with its tastelessness, until you're totally desensitised.
    Congratulations Brother - you have just written the best, most concise review of ADP of all time. For realz!

    AMEN! @Ryan @BrotherNamedErised

  7. #9652
    Senior Member Venus_Envy's Avatar
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    It took me a lot of years to get into The Beekeeper, but now I absolutely LOVE it. Unashamedly. Yes, a lot of the recordings and production is completely flat and lifeless, but the songs themselves are fantastic (for the most part). It's a very mature record, and it took me until I was older to understand it. She was a Mother, she couldn't be breastfeeding pigs and humping trees at that point - but the issues she was challenging and ideas are the same as any of her other records, just presented in a more subtle way. It's like she's saying "I'm still fighting the fight, but I'm a Mum - I have a family - I have to do the school run, and iron the shirts and pay the bills". I also like that she explored motherhood and the fear of losing her own mother.

    ADP, again, it has some great songs on it. Beauty of Speed, Code Red, Roosterspur Bridge, Girl Disappearing, Smokey Joe, Dragon, Almost Rosey, Bouncing Off Clouds - all great. The problem with that album is that it sounds like someone ate a load of guitars, threw them back up again, recorded that sound and then played it really loud over the top of Tori's album. There's a solid album in there somewhere, but it's buried under the layers and layers of crap. The only song that works for me in that style is "Body & Soul". Also, what the hell did she do to Matt's drums? Everything sounds like it was played on shoe boxes in a wardrobe. No atmosphere or power at all.

    Now, AATS - that's a festering turd of an album. It's well produced, atmospheric, great instrumentation, good melodies...and the Tori starts singing those dreadful lyrics. CRINGEFEST.
    ~just an underwater thing~

  8. #9653
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    While I understand why you are trashing ADP, I would have never started listening to Tori without it. It's not the first thing I heard from her, but It's when I fell in love. Poor production? Whatever. The energy and confrontational lyrics are very attractive. And that Tour... So much fun and again incredible energy.

  9. #9654
    Warm little diamond Nateb's Avatar
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    I still enjoy ADP. Sure the concept is ridiculous and it could use a good trimming, but for the most part, I think it's a fun album. and I have to agree with @iwo1333 that the tour was pretty great. I guess to each their own.

  10. #9655
    the unhappy worker waitressboy's Avatar
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    I think you have a really good selective memory that makes you forget about AATS and MG and Gold Dust.
    When he woke up, the dinosaur was still there.

  11. #9656
    By the methane lakes Bloody Grace's Avatar
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    For me AATS was the worst because it's when she really looked and sounded sick, and it was so sad. It was painful to look at her and it was painful to look at the album art. Sure, ADP also had some godawful artwork, but it's more like... at least she didn't look dead and taxidermied.
    AATS songs are depressing and uninspired.
    ADP is trash but it's a fun car record. Not being an english mother tongue surely helps with ignoring the lyrics... if you pretend it's not the same person who wrote FTCH it's a fun record, maybe shit-stained a bit.
    AATS is 100% pure glossy depression.
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  12. #9657
    Quote Originally Posted by waitressboy View Post
    I think you have a really good selective memory that makes you forget about AATS and MG and Gold Dust.
    Midwinter Graces is right down there with American Doll Posse for me, in terms of utter soullessness and lack of direction. But it's still more of a side project, meaning I don't take it quite as seriously. Abnormally Attracted to Sin and Gold Dust are boring and completely uninspired but they're not really offensive. I never listen to them but they don't give me rage blackouts.

  13. #9658
    Robbing the muse... Beelust's Avatar
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    I think I just dislike TBK, ADP and AATS the albums all equally. I think I prefer the ADP era the most of the 3 because I loved the tour and think Tori was genius for dressing up as different dolls each show. Way to keep your audience and internet fans salivating. And her live performances of songs that sucked on the album (Fat Slut, Teenage Hustling) were great live.

    Still love MWG. It sounds like a holiday Tori album to me. I think it has better "direction" than TBK, ADP, and AATS. But we all hear things differently. So glad for the NOH, UG and now the outstanding NI.
    Last edited by Beelust; 09-14-2018 at 12:25 AM.
    Robbing the muse...

  14. #9659
    Quote Originally Posted by Beelust View Post
    So glad for the NOH, UG and now the outstanding NI.
    Exactly, I think that what matters is that she's finally turned over a new leaf, and done it spectacularly well.

  15. #9660
    I'm gonna be rude and throw Night of Hunters into the bad pile. I don't even like the good songs that much, it's so lifeless and stuffy, like an uncomfortable recital that you just wanna leave. What happened to the expression in her voice??? Where'd it go?! Saving it for UG & NOH I guess.

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