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Thread: Random Tori Chatter (oooilllll spiiiilllllllll)

  1. #10141
    Senior Member fluteoftheloon's Avatar
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    Your feelings don't matter here, sorry.

  2. #10142
    hoo
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    @pancakefrompele It's not about intentions, though. The fact remains that no one from Team Tori has made a public statement about the death of her mother, and people took something that was not publicly shared, meant for friends and family, and shared it with the "fandom" so complete strangers could share in this very personal thing. Tori and her family should have been able to choose when this information was shared with fans and how, and that was taken from them. That's not right. No one else's feelings matter in this except for the family. The feelings of fans hurting for her or feeling bad for her do not matter right now. Those could have been shared if and when the family chose to announce her death.

  3. #10143
    ...Under The Ivy Littlegreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tashelorette View Post
    Me looking at the obituary page:


    I mean, what in the hell are people thinking? I don't want to over-generalize, but Tori fans seem to be exceptionally bad at boundaries.

    One of the reasons I stopped hanging out at Tori groups on FB. The daily cringe was just too much.
    Yes, a lot of them truly feel like they are "friends" with Tori. It's very creepy.
    They say you were something in those formative years...

  4. #10144
    Threat level: Bitch in a wheelchair andy's Avatar
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    I know there are a lot of crazy motherfuckers in the community - and no, I would not post or try and contact the family directly - but I have to say, I was in a Skype call with someone I don't know well when I read the news and I froze momentarily mid-conversation and then had to explain to the person why I did. If felt, and came across, weird. I didn't know what to do with the information. I know Tori is not my personal friend, I've only met her once for a bout 60 seconds (though she knows some fans by name, some have met her parents), but I have followed her life closely, and she has affected mine intensely and irreversibly. In the same way that listening to Our New Year for the first time made me cry for her as though she were a close friend, this news caused a similar physical response, a knot in my stomach. I wrestled with it for a few minutes feeling... what, I don't know. Like, who could I reach out to that would even understand this feeling of empathic grief. Some people would think it vapid - like posting about a celebrity you were never even a fan of - and some creepy, like most in this thread. The truth is I will always have intense feelings surrounding this artist, not just as an artist, but as a person. Her life is something she has intentionally and purposefully shared with us from the beginning, unflinchingly, right up to and through Mary's stroke (some of those radio interviews where she imitated her felt like crossing a boundary even though she was the one doing it) and while she did not share this information with us (that's the main crossed boundary) we can't pretend that the information isn't out there and won't affect us.

    In the end I went for a walk, got some food and called my Ma. She was able to relate on a human level, that an artist who has done so much for me has experienced something very painful. Even though not a very emotional woman, she knew I needed to check in with my own mother in that moment. She knew that I lost my childhood best friend just over a year ago. She knew that I am sensitive to others pain and she didn't judge me for it. As the day went on I messaged my ex, one of my oldest friends, a newer friend who lost his father last year to ALS and who thinks of Gaga in a similar way as I think of Tori. I feel lucky to have been able to reach out to these people without fear of being judged or laughed at. I am so thankful that for all the mocking and ribbing I receive for being a Tori Amos fan that my close friends were able to take me seriously when I reached out, trying to verbalise and understand the feeling I had.

    I don't think it's really that strange that the (usually very emotional) fan base want to put their feelings somewhere. I don't think most of them are doing it out of selfishness, just as I understand the fiercely protective point of views being shared here. I imagine most of them don't have someone they can talk about this feeling to and be taken seriously. I'm sure most of us here feel more rocked at this news than we would if it were nearly any other celebrity. Mary and Beenie - neither of who are celebrities themselves - both have a particularly strange place in our lives, both recurrent muses for an artist we really care for. I mean, I'm certain all of us have listened to either Mother or Reindeer King or Dixie in the last couple of days at some point. It's a strange situation, the only thing close to it I can think of is Billie Lourd, which was intense without the personal involvement I have with someone like Tori.

    In the end, while it may not be appropriate to post on the obituary, I'm sure very few of those people are doing anything more than trying to put their feelings somewhere. Rather on that page than in reality. And at the end of the day, I doubt anyone in the family is really paying a lot of attention to the fans posting - they have all lived with this limelight for many years, I'm sure they can tune it out on a normal day. I'm sure they can do so even more so when the family is pulling in tightly and focusing on their personal loss. A hostile environment on a forum is not going to stop people from posting, if anything it's going to make people feel like they have even less space to own what they feel. Let's try and be somewhat understanding, even if we (myself included) don't agree with the expression.

    Edit: Just to be 100% clear - the information should not have been shared by a fan. That is the major thing I have an issue with, I am just saying that while making our feelings known to the family is absolutely not important, the information is unavoidable now (it'a not like we're talking about a spoiler) and it IS okay for us to have feelings. I would think a message board for fans of the artist would be the ideal place to share what we feel.
    Last edited by andy; 05-15-2019 at 12:13 PM.

  5. #10145
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    Quote Originally Posted by pancakefrompele View Post
    I'm honestly not sure how you can't understand a person's need to empathize when they see someone going through a difficult time. You know what sending positive energy means. Tori Amos is a celebrity. It comes with the territory. I doubt she's taken aback or surprised her fans are posting. Did I post? No. I don't know Tori personally, I didn't know her mother, and i don't feel it's my place, but that doesn't negate someone else's feelings, and there may be a handful of people wanting Tori to notice them, but I'm pretty sure the majority of posts are coming from a place of sympathy, pure and simple.
    As someone who has lost both his parents I just want to contribute. The feelings of fans, who are outsiders, don't matter. The feelings of people who actually knew Tori or Tori's mom personally, do. Meet & greets don't count. Yes, you're allowed to have your feelings about this - that is completely legitimate because Tori is an artist that has a tendency to really connect and resonate with fans. However, her mother dying is a private matter between Tori and her loved ones, and it is extremely disrespectful to a) pretend as if you have any business being at the service or even signing that online guestbook and b) defending fans who are doing that. Have some boundaries, for crying out loud.

  6. #10146
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    It's like a competition among the worst fans for Best Guest Star in Performative, Competitive Grief.

  7. #10147
    Senior Member pancakefrompele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dollsbitches View Post
    As someone who has lost both his parents I just want to contribute. The feelings of fans, who are outsiders, don't matter. The feelings of people who actually knew Tori or Tori's mom personally, do. Meet & greets don't count. Yes, you're allowed to have your feelings about this - that is completely legitimate because Tori is an artist that has a tendency to really connect and resonate with fans. However, her mother dying is a private matter between Tori and her loved ones, and it is extremely disrespectful to a) pretend as if you have any business being at the service or even signing that online guestbook and b) defending fans who are doing that. Have some boundaries, for crying out loud.
    I understand your perspective. I've lost several loved ones too, including my mother. When my mom died we were inundated by members of our extended family, her current and former co-workers, friends she'd had in high school, random people from church, etc. It was all very overwhelming and, at the time, felt a bit annoying. Being older and a bit wiser I would like to think I wasn't in the headspace to accept the overwhelming show of love and support for both my mother and our family. I felt a bit like all these outsiders were coming in and making a huge ado about a woman they hadn't spoken with since she was a kid. The energy, however, the vibes - the intent - was good. I wasn't open to receiving that energy. Maybe Tori's family is or isn't. I don't know. What I am attempting to impart and take away from this discussion is that the intent from Tori's fans - wanted or not - is positive. It's boundary-crossing for sure, but still positive. Moreover, would it sting even more if Tori didn't see an outpouring of love and payment of respect from her fans? Sure. You can say Tori would love to receive that support on her own terms and in her own time, an opinion I respect; however, grief and dealing with grief doesn't always work that way. Tori fans are like the extended, very far removed, horribly distant cousins no one wanted to hear from, but I stand by the fact that their intent is one of love and positivity, however received. That's all I plan to say about it, and publicly (in this forum - no pun intended) I would like to express my deepest sympathies for Tori and her loved ones.

  8. #10148
    Warm little diamond Nateb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy View Post
    Edit: Just to be 100% clear - the information should not have been shared by a fan. That is the major thing I have an issue with, I am just saying that while making our feelings known to the family is absolutely not important, the information is unavoidable now (it'a not like we're talking about a spoiler) and it IS okay for us to have feelings. I would think a message board for fans of the artist would be the ideal place to share what we feel.
    A thousand times this. It's awful that a fan found the obit and then felt it was ok to share it all over. As far as condolences or needing to share your feelings, share them here or on one of the hundred Facebook groups, hell even post it on Tori's Facebook page, but not the funeral home's obituary listing. I have even seen on Facebook groups where people are collecting money to purchase floral arrangements to send to the service that will have all their names on the card. I can't help but feel that it's less about honoring someone that's passed than it is getting the satisfaction that Tori might see their name on the card.

  9. #10149
    worth a million in prizes .chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nateb View Post
    I have even seen on Facebook groups where people are collecting money to purchase floral arrangements to send to the service that will have all their names on the card. I can't help but feel that it's less about honoring someone that's passed than it is getting the satisfaction that Tori might see their name on the card.
    God this is so fucking dumb. If you feel the need to do something, make a donation in honor of Tori's mom or to fight ALS.

  10. #10150
    so what if i like pretty things Bryan Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nateb View Post
    A thousand times this. It's awful that a fan found the obit and then felt it was ok to share it all over. As far as condolences or needing to share your feelings, share them here or on one of the hundred Facebook groups, hell even post it on Tori's Facebook page, but not the funeral home's obituary listing. I have even seen on Facebook groups where people are collecting money to purchase floral arrangements to send to the service that will have all their names on the card. I can't help but feel that it's less about honoring someone that's passed than it is getting the satisfaction that Tori might see their name on the card.
    Yep. I didn't make a contribution. So, so strange to me to do that.
    tuna rubber a little blubber in my igloo

  11. #10151
    I totally agree with that. Flowers being sent from fans is weird. I doubt it's to honour Mary's memory, and more for sucking up to Tori. They should just stop.

  12. #10152
    I'd like to apologize for adding the obituary link to my initial post. I have since removed it. My main thought was that people would believe it was a hoax without the link, but I can understand how it resulted in a line being crossed.

  13. #10153
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    ^ I think fans have shared it in other places. Personally, linking a public obituary website isn’t the issue IMO. Anyone can read it. It’s just the idea that some take it a step further and choose to comment. One person there is talking about Nancy Shanks (Beenie) who died last week. I’m sure Mary’s family and friends had a wtf moment with that.

  14. #10154
    entertaining in its outrage Volta's Avatar
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    I haven't seen a link .. it must have been taken down. I personally wouldn't post on it. But having lost someone very recently.. condolences even from people I didn't know are all very welcomed and makes you feel better.
    To people who are bigger fans than I am, Mary's story is one that is shared with great pride in songs, in her book, in the dvd extras. Tori wanted us to know Mary.

    I just don't see Tori freaking out over kind words. Maybe. I dunno.
    Who said you were evil?
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  15. #10155
    Warm little diamond Nateb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volta View Post
    I haven't seen a link .. it must have been taken down. I personally wouldn't post on it. But having lost someone very recently.. condolences even from people I didn't know are all very welcomed and makes you feel better.
    To people who are bigger fans than I am, Mary's story is one that is shared with great pride in songs, in her book, in the dvd extras. Tori wanted us to know Mary.

    I just don't see Tori freaking out over kind words. Maybe. I dunno.
    I agree. Kind words are one thing, but using the obituary comment section to share how Tori's songs have helped you are a totally different monster. I agree she wanted us to know Mary, but personally I feel the proper thing would have been to wait until Tori announced her mother's passing herself or through her team then offering your condolences. The fact that someone out there was clearly searching regularly to locate her mother's obit and share it is crossing a line. IMHO.

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