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Thread: Tori's lost potential.

  1. #1
    condemned to wires and hammers ebby's Avatar
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    Tori's lost potential.

    No, seriously.

    Think of 90's Tori. Think of that iconic cover image of herself, PJ and Björk. Look at PJ and Björk now - PJ's latest album is being lauded from all sides, and Björk was courted by the Manchester International Festival to do a residency there. Tori's putting on a musical and her last few albums kinda didn't really make a dent in the public consciousness.

    And honestly, she was on fire at one point - true, not everyone liked what she did. But her music was vital and unique, inspiring other songwriters, and baffling and enthralling critics in equal measures.

    Coming from a wider cultural perspective - how is it that her Cover photo compatriots have managed to remain major forces in their own ways, yet Tori seems to have gotten stuck into this inward looking cycle? What was the last thing that Tori did that really made a dent on the music world?

    I think, more than anything, that's what I'm most disappointed in when it comes to Tori. She's so fucking talented. I mean, really. Amazing pianist, amazing songwriter, amazing singer, unique musical language, and yet somehow, it seems everything fell flat somewhere after A Sorta Fairytale and this great momentum was lost.

    I don't know if we can blame TBK for everything, as there's always a bum album that doesn't make as much impact as others around it, but it feels like she's been trying to get back to that place where she was a bit more relevant again, and honestly, she's kinda not. And that makes me sad.

  2. #2
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    Tori is a bit older than PJ and Bjork, so there's that. Her career is at a different stage than theirs.

    I agree with menju56's notion that something (we have no idea what) seems to have happened in 2004 to Tori that sent her career and personal life and image in a new direction.

    I also think PJ and Bjork come from Europe, where more of a premium is put on being creative. Tori is obsessed with "success" and achievement and has a very Calvinistic attitude towards life I think.

  3. #3
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    In 2009 Tori had a Top 20 Uk Album, and a Top 10 US Album.
    In 2010 Tori performed with a full Ocrhestra.
    In 2011 she's got a deal with the biggest Classical Music company.
    In 2012 she's got a musical coming out.

    Ok, You might not have liked her last fews albums, career choices etc, and she might not be doing aswell sales/and critically as Pj and Bjork, but I don't think the girl is doing too bad.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Cairn's Avatar
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    Tori is less than 5 years older than either of those women. That's hardly a generation gap.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Hannah.'s Avatar
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    You summed it up for me, ebby

    I think the absolute worst thing about this Fori shit is that I know that Tori is better than that. It's hard to believe that someone so passionate, creative, and gifted could become so irrelevant. Her first four albums, for me, embody the word "inspired" - like her, hate her, you can't deny that this woman was insanely talented. It kills me to see the direction she's taken with her music. It really seems like she's an entirely different person.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Cairn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannah. View Post
    You summed it up for me, ebby

    Her first four albums, for me, embody the word "inspired"
    100% agreed. That WAS the genius.

  7. #7
    and it sounds like all our lives Kari's Avatar
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    She said she was anchovies and that some people liked vanilla ice cream, and that was okay, that not everyone liked anchovies.

    It turns out she actually wanted to be vanilla ice cream. That's the most disappointing thing in the world to me. There's a blandness and a banal quality to her work now that wasn't there before.

  8. #8
    Frankly my dear Girl Friday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    She said she was anchovies and that some people liked vanilla ice cream, and that was okay, that not everyone liked anchovies.

    It turns out she actually wanted to be vanilla ice cream. That's the most disappointing thing in the world to me. There's a blandness and a banal quality to her work now that wasn't there before.
    This.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cairn View Post
    Tori is less than 5 years older than either of those women. That's hardly a generation gap.
    It can be in popular music. Forty for a woman in the music business is one thing, fifty is something else altogther. But anyway, most of Tori's problems have nothing to do with that, I'm just saying that there is this difference between her and the other two.

  10. #10
    condemned to wires and hammers ebby's Avatar
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    edit: re: twistedround's points: Ummm, performing with a full orchestra isn't actually that big a deal. I could jot off a long list of other performers who've done the same, and some of those have toured with a full orchestra in each venue. If Tori had done it years ago it'd've been a bit more ground breaking to be honest. It was great to do, and some of the stuff from it was wonderful to hear. That's true. Did it make an impact on the music world? Did it make her culturally relevant again? No.

    A top 20 UK album in 2009? She used to go top ten. What's the longevity of those albums? Do album sales matter in terms of cultural impact? Does her newer music get played on tv or radio?

    The musical is interesting, but it depends on what it actually sounds like. It could utterly flop, or it could be the next Wicked.

    The "deal with the biggest Classical Music company" - ah now. Again, the "deal" you get makes fuck all difference unless the music is good. There's a lot of shit on big labels. If she pulls it out with the new album I'll be really fucking happy. It's the first time in a long time that a Tori album has sounded like it'll be something different.

    I'm not talking about her keeping the money coming in - I couldn't give a shit one way or another. I'm talking about how she used to have more of a cultural impact, or that her older material still has that cultural impact, but she's lost that. She's not making music that feels relevant or fresh or pushing boundaries. That's what I'm on about.


    Also, age doesn't factor into it. Not from a cultural point of view. Sure, in terms of Pop stars, if you like. But damnit, older musicians manage to make a dent on the music world in big ways too.

  11. #11
    Hurt people hurt people too toriMODE's Avatar
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    I think she's lost in the world of friend and family and even fans that won't speak up to her. She is surrounded by sychophants, and I think she likes it this way. If she'd get away from that context, and away from the chains of 'husband,' I think she could have a chance of realizing her true potential in some kind of way. But at this rate, I don't think we're going to see the albums that were, that Hannah so eloquently put it--inspired, anytime soon.

  12. #12
    condemned to wires and hammers ebby's Avatar
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    She used to be dubbed the Queen of Alternative.

    Now she's singing to mothers and malls.

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    Tori has squandered her legacy too. The other point to make is that lots of artists fade away a bit - is Sarah McClahlan (sp?) culturally relevant? No. But the difference is Sarah hasn't completely embarrassed herself like Tori has.

  14. #14
    Hurt people hurt people too toriMODE's Avatar
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    Maybe it was something that happened in California....

  15. #15
    A Matter Of How You See It Kala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toriMODE View Post
    I think she's lost in the world of friend and family and even fans that won't speak up to her. She is surrounded by sycophants, and I think she likes it this way.
    While this is speculation because we don't know the woman, I think there is probably a hell of a lot of truth here.

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