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Thread: Tori's lost potential.

  1. #16
    Senior Member Cairn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUHN View Post
    ...Tori's problems have nothing to do with that...
    My point exactly.

  2. #17
    Senior Member Hannah.'s Avatar
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    I wonder if she met up with PJ and Bjork again if they'd be able to set her straight...

  3. #18
    Senior Member Cairn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kala View Post
    While this is speculation because we don't know the woman, I think there is probably a hell of a lot of truth here.
    Especially when weighed against how often she mentions her musical choices these days being at least partially informed by how she thinks Tash will be affected by seeing or hearing mommy do this or that.

  4. #19
    condemned to wires and hammers ebby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUHN View Post
    Tori has squandered her legacy too. The other point to make is that lots of artists fade away a bit - is Sarah McClahlan (sp?) culturally relevant? No. But the difference is Sarah hasn't completely embarrassed herself like Tori has.
    That is also unfortunately quite true.

    Actually, one thing that stuck out for me, was when loads of my friends went to see Tori in Dublin in 2005. Most were casual fans, some were pretty hard core or beginner fans. That tour killed Tori for loads of the casual fans who said it was the worst gig they'd been to in ages. Which was a pity, as she has had such a phenomenal live reputation preceding then. I know she recovered it with the ADP tour, but not here. But while a one off dud can be recovered from, she's had a bit of a watered down decade compared to her 90's decade of fire.

    Maybe next she'll get all earthy on us

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebby View Post
    edit: re: twistedround's points: Ummm, performing with a full orchestra isn't actually that big a deal. I could jot off a long list of other performers who've done the same, and some of those have toured with a full orchestra in each venue. If Tori had done it years ago it'd've been a bit more ground breaking to be honest. It was great to do, and some of the stuff from it was wonderful to hear. That's true. Did it make an impact on the music world? Did it make her culturally relevant again? No.

    A top 20 UK album in 2009? She used to go top ten. What's the longevity of those albums? Do album sales matter in terms of cultural impact? Does her newer music get played on tv or radio?

    The musical is interesting, but it depends on what it actually sounds like. It could utterly flop, or it could be the next Wicked.

    The "deal with the biggest Classical Music company" - ah now. Again, the "deal" you get makes fuck all difference unless the music is good. There's a lot of shit on big labels. If she pulls it out with the new album I'll be really fucking happy. It's the first time in a long time that a Tori album has sounded like it'll be something different.

    I'm not talking about her keeping the money coming in - I couldn't give a shit one way or another. I'm talking about how she used to have more of a cultural impact, or that her older material still has that cultural impact, but she's lost that. She's not making music that feels relevant or fresh or pushing boundaries. That's what I'm on about.


    Also, age doesn't factor into it. Not from a cultural point of view. Sure, in terms of Pop stars, if you like. But damnit, older musicians manage to make a dent on the music world in big ways too.
    I just felt you were completly focusing on the negatives, and wanted to point out she is doing some *potentially* exciting stuff.

    I myself like most of Tori's recent output. I think being only a fan for about 6years, I've spent an equal amount of times with most her songs, where as you long term fans have spent years with Pink, pele, etc, you've had relentionships, breakdowns, kids, jobs, highs lows, etc all with those songs as soundtracks to your life. It kinda annoys me when I hear some Tori fans say "It took me years to love...*insert early song here* but then it finally clicked, and then in the next sentance say "I listened to *insert Fori song here* once and won't listen again, its shit". Theres a double standard there that Tori's never going to be able compete with.

    I do think a lot of good stuff has come out off these past few years and lots of people ignore that and put a "its all shite, my little pony trash". Lots of her songs post SW (for me) have been amazing.

    Clearly your passionate about Tori and I'm not going to change your opinion (nor would I want too) but at least try and find some positives. Please
    Last edited by twistedround; 05-10-2011 at 09:18 PM.

  6. #21
    A Matter Of How You See It Kala's Avatar
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    Re: PJ - she may be a few years younger than Tori, but I find myself relating much more to her current output, performance style, and interview responses (as opposed to Tori's.)
    And I'm fifty(!)

  7. #22
    DEEKWARE INDYPENDANTS!!! halo eighteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebby View Post
    Actually, one thing that stuck out for me, was when loads of my friends went to see Tori in Dublin in 2005. Most were casual fans, some were pretty hard core or beginner fans. That tour killed Tori for loads of the casual fans who said it was the worst gig they'd been to in ages. Which was a pity, as she has had such a phenomenal live reputation preceding then. I know she recovered it with the ADP tour, but not here. But while a one off dud can be recovered from, she's had a bit of a watered down decade compared to her 90's decade of fire.
    Yes, my boyfriend has absolutely refused to see another Tori Amos concert after the snoozefest he endured in 2005. It makes traveling and touring cheaper for me, so I'm not complaining - but I'm sure there's tons of people who have also opted to not buy tickets anymore. In hindsight, with everything on her plate at that time, she really ought not have been touring.

  8. #23
    fire up the quattro SMMY's Avatar
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    I think she's just settled, so to speak. The direction her music has gone in, has probably more to do with being middle-aged and not being the flavor of month anymore in the music industry. It used to be that she could generate enough interest with a new album that she didn't need to use external gimmicks (such as dolls and the like) to get the faithful out to buy the albums. Now she's fiftyish and can't tour like she used to and probably not nearly as angry or have as much time to think really deep thoughts so we get a more watered down version of her. Maybe when Tash goes off to college, we'll see some sort of resurgence of a sort.

  9. #24
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    I think this thread is depressing because all of what you guys said are true, BUT this new album sounds kinda promising and the last solo tour was the first time in ages I saw Tori performing with such a passion. I really sincerely hope that those 3 albums (TBK, ADP,AATS )were just a bad time in her musical career and she will bounce back again.

  10. #25
    fire up the quattro SMMY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twistedround View Post
    I just felt you were completly focusing on the negatives, and wanted to point out she is doing some *potentially* exciting stuff.

    I myself like most of Tori's recent output. I think being only a fan for about 6years, I've spent an equal amount of times with most her songs, where as you long term fans have spent years with Pink, pele, etc, you've had relentionships, breakdowns, kids, jobs, highs lows, etc all with those songs as soundtracks to your life. It kinda annoys me when I hear some Tori fans say "It took me years to love...*insert early song here* but then it finally clicked, and then in the next sentance say "I listened to *insert Fori song here* once and won't listen again, its shit". Theres a double standard there that Tori's never going to be able compete with.

    I do think a lot of good stuff has come out off these past few years and lots of people ignore that and put a "its all shite, my little pony trash". Lots of her songs post SW (for me) have been amazing.

    Clearly your passionate about Tori and I'm not going to change your opinion (nor would I want too) but at least try and find some positives. Please
    The promo picture for the new album made me want to watch "Moonstruck" again?

  11. #26
    Hurt people hurt people too toriMODE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannah. View Post
    I wonder if she met up with PJ and Bjork again if they'd be able to set her straight...
    They'd run the other direction, because they would not recognize her!

  12. #27
    By the methane lakes Bloody Grace's Avatar
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    From my point of view, the difference between Tori and other musicians such as PJ or Bjork is that I don't give a shit about PJ and Bjork. It's kinda weird that Tori, even in the Fori era, is the only musician I really care about, the only one I can say that I'm a fan of. I used to be a fan of other musicians but I kind of lost interest in them, even if I'm still following them and buying their album, but it's not like I'd spend 50€ to see one of their shows. I'd do that for Tori.

    The thing I still admire of her is that she don't repeat herself. In almost 20 years she never repeated herself, never composed a single song that you'd tell it resembles another song she already wrote. Her genius is still there, the cake is still good, it's the wrap that's pure trash.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMMY View Post
    The promo picture for the new album made me want to watch "Moonstruck" again?
    Is it any good? I quite like Cher the actress. It is the Cher film right?

  14. #29
    A Matter Of How You See It Kala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMMY View Post
    The promo picture for the new album made me want to watch "Moonstruck" again?

  15. #30
    fire up the quattro SMMY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloody Grace View Post
    From my point of view, the difference between Tori and other musicians such as PJ or Bjork is that I don't give a shit about PJ and Bjork. It's kinda weird that Tori, even in the Fori era, is the only musician I really care about, the only one I can say that I'm a fan of. I used to be a fan of other musicians but I kind of lost interest in them, even if I'm still following them and buying their album, but it's not like I'd spend 50€ to see one of their shows. I'd do that for Tori.

    The thing I still admire of her is that she don't repeat herself. In almost 20 years she never repeated herself, never composed a single song that you'd tell it resembles another song she already wrote. Her genius is still there, the cake is still good, it's the wrap that's pure trash.
    personally I think the current cake has gone off it's sell by date. Different isn't automatically better. That's like saying quantity is directly related to quality. I would rather she repeat the quality of previous albums. I'm not as worried about how different one album is to another, but that I can stand to listen to it without wanting to gouge my ears out with a butter knife.

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