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Thread: Tori's lost potential.

  1. #31
    condemned to wires and hammers ebby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twistedround View Post
    I just felt you were completly focusing on the negatives, and wanted to point out she is doing some *potentially* exciting stuff.

    I myself like most of Tori's recent output. I think being only a fan for about 6years, I've spent an equal amount of times with most her songs, where as you long term fans have spent years with Pink, pele, etc, you've had relentionships, breakdowns, kids, jobs, highs lows, etc all with those songs as soundtracks to your life. It kinda annoys me when I hear some Tori fans say "It took me years to love...*insert early song here* but then it finally clicked, and then in the next sentance say "I listened to *insert Fori song here* once and won't listen again, its shit". Theres a double standard there that Tori's never going to be able compete with.

    I do think a lot of good stuff has come out off these past few years and lots of people ignore that and put a "its all shite, my little pony trash". Lots of her songs post SW (for me) have been amazing.

    Clearly your passionate about Tori and I'm not going to change your opinion (nor would I want too) but at least try and find some positives. Please
    Oh, I try to look at the positives, but I'm wary of getting my hopes up anymore as sometimes the gems of songs are smothered or buried deep in an album of filler.

    She still can make me remember what I love about her with some of her new material.

    I get your point about the length of time being a fan - but think of it from another way. Despite the fact that I've been listening to her stuff since the mid 90's, some of her material doesn't get old for me, and others got old really fast. Now, that's all about taste and whatnot, which is true, but I do genuinely try and give her records a chance. But the difference is, the songs that I might not have liked instantly once, were usually songs that were really challenging as opposed to kinda boring. Just sayin'.

    Like, I was rocking out to ADP recently after getting "Drive All Night" stuck in my head (it's on my alternate, shorter, tracklisting of ADP) - and there's a few utterly brilliant songs on that record, and them there's the other 10 or 12 songs that were put on there too.

  2. #32
    condemned to wires and hammers ebby's Avatar
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    (double post gremlin strikes again)
    Last edited by ebby; 05-10-2011 at 10:07 PM.

  3. #33
    DEEKWARE INDYPENDANTS!!! halo eighteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloody Grace View Post
    The thing I still admire of her is that she don't repeat herself. In almost 20 years she never repeated herself, never composed a single song that you'd tell it resembles another song she already wrote. Her genius is still there, the cake is still good, it's the wrap that's pure trash.
    I'm not sure about this. Welcome to England has a very similar sound and feel to A Sorta Fairytale. Curtain Call's piano line also heavily resembles Siren's. I realize that's getting nitty-picky, but aside from that, a great percentage of her 2002-2009 work could all be from the same damn album as far as I'm concerned. It's like the Tash.0 years or something.

  4. #34
    Senior Member JAE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twistedround View Post
    It kinda annoys me when I hear some Tori fans say "It took me years to love...*insert early song here* but then it finally clicked, and then in the next sentance say "I listened to *insert Fori song here* once and won't listen again, its shit". Theres a double standard there that Tori's never going to be able compete with.
    Well no, there's a huge difference between listening to a song and recognising that it is musically/lyrically/structurally/sonically interesting but not getting it first time around, and listening to 500 Miles. It doesn't matter how long you've spent with some albums compared to the others, there is a clear shift in the overall quality of pretty much all aspects of the music no matter how many rough diamonds are lying embedded in the shite. To compare those two scenarios is disingenuous.

  5. #35
    Hurt people hurt people too toriMODE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloody Grace View Post
    The thing I still admire of her is that she don't repeat herself. In almost 20 years she never repeated herself, never composed a single song that you'd tell it resembles another song she already wrote. Her genius is still there, the cake is still good, it's the wrap that's pure trash.
    Ummmmm what about Ophelia? I remember when it first came out thinking it sounded like Garlands and Gold Dust had a feel-ya moment and popped out offspring.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAE View Post
    Well no, there's a huge difference between listening to a song and recognising that it is musically/lyrically/structurally/sonically interesting but not getting it first time around, and listening to 500 Miles. It doesn't matter how long you've spent with some albums compared to the others, there is a clear shift in the overall quality of pretty much all aspects of the music no matter how many rough diamonds are lying embedded in the shite. To compare those two scenarios is disingenuous.
    I disagree. When I brought Choirgirl, I was in a happy place, and the album didnt do a great deal for me. I got dumped, got down, and oh my, all these songs of rejection came flooding into me, I definatly think different emotional life stages are going to reflect how you feel about an album.

    And in saying that I can say that while my life is going along ok (kinda plodding) I'm content with TBK, ADP, AATS. But when the dark times come again, it will most definatly be Pele and Choirgirl I go too.

    I agree the quality has gone downhill, but there still is some good stuff there. I think people ignore that fact.

  7. #37
    fire up the quattro SMMY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twistedround View Post
    I disagree. When I brought Choirgirl, I was in a happy place, and the album didnt do a great deal for me. I got dumped, got down, and oh my, all these songs of rejection came flooding into me, I definatly think different emotional life stages are going to reflect how you feel about an album.

    And in saying that I can say that while my life is going along ok (kinda plodding) I'm content with TBK, ADP, AATS. But when the dark times come again, it will most definatly be Pele and Choirgirl I go too.

    I agree the quality has gone downhill, but there still is some good stuff there. I think people ignore that fact.
    by that I am guessing you mean the large number of people who no longer buy her music.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloody Grace View Post
    Her genius is still there, the cake is still good, it's the wrap that's pure trash.
    I think there's a pest bursting out of the cake. Sadly it's not killed the rest of the crew or the android guitarist.


  9. #39
    Senior Member JAE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twistedround View Post
    I'm content with TBK, ADP, AATS.
    And I'm 'content with' beige wallpaper.

  10. #40
    DEEKWARE INDYPENDANTS!!! halo eighteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twistedround View Post
    I agree the quality has gone downhill, but there still is some good stuff there.
    That's true, I think the biggest problem isn't necessarily the material, but how it's presented. Someone needs to inform Tori that just because CD's can hold up to 80- minutes of material that they don't NEED to always have close to 80 minutes of material. If you're telling some kind of cohesive story that really requires that amount of material, that's one thing. But she's just stuffing her albums full of music for the sake of stuffing them full of music. When it gets to that point, finding the cream of the crop is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
    Last edited by halo eighteen; 05-10-2011 at 09:46 PM.

  11. #41
    I agree with what ebby and Kari said on the first page..... I think this sums my disappointment up completely....

    PJ/Bjork..........Tori....what happened? I was just watching a random interview from Bjork last night on youtube and she seemed so, sincere and genuinely artistic. Now every time time I watch a modern Tori interview I get the eye-rolls happening! And about the anchovies quote, turns out she did want to be Vanilla afterall.... maybe Siren was a clue? Hmmmm...

  12. #42
    fire up the quattro SMMY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halo eighteen View Post
    I think the biggest problem isn't necessarily the material, but how it's presented. Someone needs to inform Tori that just because CD's can hold up to 80- minutes of material that they don't NEED to always have close to 80 minutes of material. If you're telling some kind of cohesive story that really requires that amount of material, that's one thing. But she's just stuffing her albums full of music for the sake of stuffing them full of music. When it gets to that point, finding the cream of the crop is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
    Honestly I don't mind a CD stuffed with lots of music as long as it's good music (see BFP). Length isn't the problem, it's the quality of the music that's on the album. I don't expect to love every tune, but I expect to be knocked out by at least a couple of tunes and find the rest at least listenable. I don't find that anymore with her albums.

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by JAE View Post
    And I'm 'content with' beige wallpaper.
    Tori Amos - Charlotte Perkins Gilman's drabbest protagonist?

  14. #44
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    What I was thinking about recently with regard to Tori's lost potential is some of the comments she made in her Behind the Music about Y Kant Tori Read. She said that she ways trying to "cop a piece of what was being signed at the time" or the current trends in music. I think something simliar is occuring now - Tori is perfectly willing to mold herself into the sound and look of the time - she jumped on the 80's hair metal/Berlineqsue sound, she became all earnest and stripped down and vaguely grungey in the early 90's, she dabbled in electronica (like Madonna) in the late 90's. And now she's doing this glam android fashion thing.

    Again, I think PJ and Bjork realize how lucky they are to have been so successful monetarily, and they make music to express themselves because they can and because they have that freedom. Tori makes it clear from her interviews and from her behavior that she is obssessed with money and playing "the game" within "the industry." *shrugs* Maybe Tori takes her musical creativity and talent for granted because she's been good for so long and feels more energized by staring down "the suits" as opposed to chasing the Muse like she once appeared to do.

  15. #45
    Senior Member Hannah.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twistedround View Post
    And in saying that I can say that while my life is going along ok (kinda plodding) I'm content with TBK, ADP, AATS. But when the dark times come again, it will most definatly be Pele and Choirgirl I go too.
    That doesn't really mean anything. Just because someone's in "a happy place" doesn't mean that TBK, ADP, and AATS aren't complete crap. Actually, listening to those albums tends to make me feel depressed and slightly nauseated, while listening to Pele and Choirgirl make me feel happy that I'm alive and am experiencing such great music. It's statements like these that remind me of rabid fairywingers who think that not liking Tori's new work equates to not wanting Tori to be happy. Emotions really don't have anything to do with quality music. Tori wrote SW when she was in a good place, right? And I think that portions of that album are just as great as the work she did when she was emotionally distraught.

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