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Thread: The entertainment industry's unstoppable bullshit machine

  1. #571
    generally largely right Dan's Avatar
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    This is quite interesting as well:

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/writer...leigh-banfield

  2. #572
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    Haha fuck Katie Way. Not only is your writing awful but you do the story, yourself, and your publication a disservice by sending emails like this one:



    Pretend woke bae Ansari exposed by pretend woke feminist Katie Way.

  3. #573
    Remember. Steve SFM's Avatar
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    Yeah. I think that, no matter what we think of the story itself, we can agree that sending that email was a stupid fucking move. Way comes off looking like a moron there.
    At my core, I think we're gonna be OK.

    Barack Hussein Obama

  4. #574
    Alt Universe CliqueMember Spikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncanny hats View Post
    I don't think Aziz Ansari is a monster (he's a shitty dude), but in the bolded parts I certainly see an exchange that shows a violation of consent. The world is full of shitty dudes, and I think this sort of behavior is worth talking about, because as many people have pointed out, this sort of scenario is common. And one thing many people will point out is that sex while intoxicated is definitely not consensual. I personally think that consent and setting and following boundaries is preferable to no consent and/or zero boundaries.
    The part you quoted is seemingly happening after the 10 mins of breast grabbing, fingers in mouth, oral sex both ways I was referring to, and also after another 30 mins of fingers in mouth. It appears the first actual verbal cues came in the the latter 30 minutes, after which the part what you posted ensued and the cues were more clear or better remembered.
    "Replies are a combination of nonsense, unrelated comments and inside jokes"‎

  5. #575
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    It also makes me wonder if Grace is even real? Or is Katie actually Grace? If your abilities as a writer are questionable, and you can’t even send a professional email without trying to tear down a woman who was critical of your article, what else might be off about you? She insults Banfield and says no one has heard of her. If she were a “journalist” maybe she’d read up and know that Ashleigh Banfield was essentially blacklisted by NBC for being critical of the way news organizations, especially Fox, were covering Operation Iraqi Freedom. She covered 9/11 (and lost two friends in the towers). She covered war zones in Afghanistan.

  6. #576
    trapped in the worst timeline just owls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    It also makes me wonder if Grace is even real? Or is Katie actually Grace?
    The incident happened, so "Grace" is real, though it might be Katie. Aziz admitted it happened, just that he didn't see anything wrong with it and basically sorry she feels that way. I would normally say, based on the email that Gracie is a close friend of Katie or is Katie, but then I got to the part where she says she's 22. That's probably an email I'd send at 22 after a week of everyone calling me a shitty writer.

  7. #577
    Senior Member xmasinspace's Avatar
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    Sorry, but this anonymous 'Grace' is the bravest person this Katie character has ever met? She should get out more.

  8. #578
    Only knows desire. Perky Compson's Avatar
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    Someone who gives a detailed firsthand account of a famous person violating their sexual boundaries only to spend a week with people calling her an idiot and a slut and a doormat and a liar is probably braver than you are, even if she is anonymous.

  9. #579
    Remember. Steve SFM's Avatar
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    She’s certainly braver than I am. It’s hard for me to believe that others aren’t as repulsed as I am by it. I mean, shoving fingers in her mouth? What the fuck is that? How is that a way to treat another human being?
    At my core, I think we're gonna be OK.

    Barack Hussein Obama

  10. #580
    Alt Universe CliqueMember Spikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve SFM View Post
    She’s certainly braver than I am. It’s hard for me to believe that others aren’t as repulsed as I am by it.
    At some point it probably got repulsive. At another point it might have been an ambiguous situation. All based on that article of course, I don'know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve SFM View Post
    I mean, shoving fingers in her mouth? What the fuck is that? How is that a way to treat another human being?
    A lot of people find sticking and sucking fingers erotic.
    "Replies are a combination of nonsense, unrelated comments and inside jokes"‎

  11. #581
    generally largely right Dan's Avatar
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    I've read so much conflicting shit about this incident that I can't believe it; at first I didn't even feel comfortable commenting, but it's become clear that it's a necessary, if ugly discussion.

    First of all, what the fuck is this "oh, it's difficult to say no" bullshit? We've been talking about female empowerment for ages. We've discussed over how women in their early twenties feel patronized, infantilized, talked down to etc., when they are grown adults with fully developed minds and identities and personalities. We've discussed about young women's right to be assertive and stand up for themselves, in the workplace, at home, in a family environment and yes, in the bedroom. We've talked about how unfair it is that younger women aren't taken seriously when it comes to reproductive choices such as getting an IUD or a tubal ligation. But somehow, when it comes to sex and consent, (younger) women are such delicate flowers that they will wilt from a finger in the mouth, you can't expect them to say no because they are somehow socially conditioned to aim to please and be subservient, saying no is dangerous. Again, wtf? Emancipated in the streets, Victorian in the sheets? This is the utter and complete opposite of feminism.

    Let's get another thing clear: men want sex. Straight or gay, boorish or polite, old school or "woke", they want to get laid. And if we're talking social conditioning, in that sense things haven't really changed: men are socialized and expected to have as much sex as possible with as many women as possible, whereas women are expected to be more sexually restrained and not "give it away" easily. It's stupid, it's patriarchal, but it's also how things are. As long as this difference in mentality persists, straight men will keep trying to find ways to get women to sleep with them. This does not make them monsters or rapists or abusers. Women, as autonomous, independent human beings, have every right in the world to turn them down, to actually say no. If men seem unwilling to take no for an answer, then we can talk about abuse and rape and whatnot. Sure, there are situations in which a man hitting on a woman is inherently abusive, such as in a workplace context, a teacher-student or doctor/patient or priest/parishioner context, not to mention adult/child or early teen; these things are covered by laws and regulations, and not the topic of this discussion.

    It's not really hard to piece out how this whole thing may have played out in Ansari's mind. There was this much younger woman who went after him at a party, even though at first he didn't show much interest. He must have thought "oh, a groupie! An easy lay". (It's not rocket science that a man in his thirties is likely to have a purely sexual interest in someone in her (or his) early twenties, as, let's face it, their comparatively limited life experience can the younger person seem rather dull and otherwise uninteresting). He kept in touch with her and took her out on a date, which began at his apartment. Then he took her to a nice restaurant, where he gave the non-verbal cue of rushing through dinner, even though they had a conversation about their mutual interests, and then he took her back to her apartment. Her willingness to go with him was a significant non-verbal cue, leading him to believe that she is interested in having sex with him; yay! that's why he took her out anyway. He starts to do his thing; they're quite likely both at least tipsy at that point after all the wine. She seems to be into it at first, but didn't want to jump straight to intercourse. So he tried to get her more aroused, fingering her, doing a bit of slightly rough play, and then he noticed her pulling back a little. He tried to talk with her and found her a little hesitant; he started to push a little, then she went to the bathroom and stayed there a bit. They talked afterwards, she said she didn't want to feel forced, he said ok and tried to get things back to something they had already done - oral. Again, she went for it - ooh, back on track! Now it's really gonna happen. He tried to actually fuck her this time, and at that point she outright said no. Damn. Shit. Fuck. Ok, he got the message. He stopped. Then he made one last attempt - hell, maybe she did change her mind after seeing he was willing to stop. When that failed too, he called her an Uber and called it a night, blue balls and all. The next day, he thought things got kind of weird at the end so he texted her a rather standard "I had a good time, hope you did too" type of message, and she let him have it. He apologized, as a good woke bae would, and that was that.

    Shitty? Problematic? Definitely. Pushy? Entitled? Somewhat of a jerk? Clearly. Is he exclusively to blame for the night going bad? Hardly. Was there miscommunication, were there mutual misunderstandings? Totally. Did they have different ideas of what the date was about? Obviously.

    Are there lessons to be learned from this for men? Sure. If you're on a date and something seems off, fucking ask. It's gotten obvious that for various reasons, some women aren't really good at verbalizing their feelings and needs and desires, and what seems wonderful to you may be shitty to them. And as horribly difficult as it may be, process the answer with the head above your neck. If anything, even if you don't give a shit about your date as a human being, you don't want to end up on babe.net or whatever.

    Are there lessons to be learned from this for women? Ooooh yeah. First of all, there's no such thing as a woke bae. If you're on a date with a man, be it the wokest of baes, Nobel Peace Prize winner, savior of starving African children with filariasis, Hillary campaigner, his primary goal is to get in your pants. He may sincerely like and respect you as a person, he may not see you as more than a set of holes, he may be in a rush or playing the long game, he may want to end up marrying you or never seeing you again. That is not the point. For men, that is a separate thing. Sex is sex. (Also, there is nothing wrong with a man wanting to use you as a set of holes if he's upfront about it, and you're free to tell him to fuck off or enjoy him as a human dildo).

    Secondly - never rely on things like non-verbal cues with a drunk, horny man. If something seems off during the date, do not go to his apartment afterwards by any means. If you don't want to have sex, again, either don't go back to his place or at least state outright, loudly, that even if you come up for another drink, sex is completely and absolutely off the table. If you do want to have sex with him, don't wait for him to ask things; initiate a conversation about your limits before you get to his place. Do say stuff like, say, "I don't do anal/throat fucking/rough play", "don't pull my hair", "don't spank me", "don't choke me", if those are deal breakers for you. Ask him what he is into sexually. Tell him what you like. It's far, far better to discover you're sexually incompatible at the dinner table instead of in the bedroom. Many men wouldn't dream of asking about this stuff for fear of offending.

    Finally? Learn how to say no. If you aren't comfortable with saying no, perhaps you shouldn't be dating in the first place. This goes for both men and women. It's quite likely that the other person thinks that he or she is dealing with an adult who can and will assert him/herself. And of course, for more problematic situations, learn to say "oh, I totally would but there's this sore/discharge/etc that won't go away, I kept meaning to get that checked, I'll go to the doctor and get back to you".

  12. #582
    Mr. Universe Pete!'s Avatar
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    Men are killing women for saying no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Finally? Learn how to say no. If you aren't comfortable with saying no, perhaps you shouldn't be dating in the first place.
    If you aren't comfortable with hearing no, perhaps you shouldn't be dating in the first place.

  13. #583
    generally largely right Dan's Avatar
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    Sure.

    Also, yes, tragically, some women have experienced violence for saying no, some have even been murdered. But is this the solution? Don't say no because there's a 0.00001% chance of being murdered?

  14. #584
    Alt Universe CliqueMember Spikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete! View Post
    If you aren't comfortable with hearing no, perhaps you shouldn't be dating in the first place.
    Tbh a drunk person not picking up non-verbal cues from another drunk person is not the same as not being able to hear no, if that is really what happened. After she told him no he tried to convince her maybe because of the potential ambiguity before, and then called her an Uber.
    "Replies are a combination of nonsense, unrelated comments and inside jokes"‎

  15. #585
    condemned to wires and hammers ebby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Are there lessons to be learned from this for men? Sure. If you're on a date and something seems off, fucking ask. It's gotten obvious that for various reasons, some women aren't really good at verbalizing their feelings and needs and desires, and what seems wonderful to you may be shitty to them. And as horribly difficult as it may be, process the answer with the head above your neck. If anything, even if you don't give a shit about your date as a human being, you don't want to end up on babe.net or whatever.
    All of your suggestions basically are aimed at a man feeling like he's covered his bases with the end goal of not ending up "on babe.net or whatever"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Are there lessons to be learned from this for women? Ooooh yeah. First of all, there's no such thing as a woke bae. If you're on a date with a man, be it the wokest of baes, Nobel Peace Prize winner, savior of starving African children with filariasis, Hillary campaigner, his primary goal is to get in your pants. He may sincerely like and respect you as a person, he may not see you as more than a set of holes, he may be in a rush or playing the long game, he may want to end up marrying you or never seeing you again. That is not the point. For men, that is a separate thing. Sex is sex. (Also, there is nothing wrong with a man wanting to use you as a set of holes if he's upfront about it, and you're free to tell him to fuck off or enjoy him as a human dildo).

    Secondly - never rely on things like non-verbal cues with a drunk, horny man. If something seems off during the date, do not go to his apartment afterwards by any means. If you don't want to have sex, again, either don't go back to his place or at least state outright, loudly, that even if you come up for another drink, sex is completely and absolutely off the table. If you do want to have sex with him, don't wait for him to ask things; initiate a conversation about your limits before you get to his place. Do say stuff like, say, "I don't do anal/throat fucking/rough play", "don't pull my hair", "don't spank me", "don't choke me", if those are deal breakers for you. Ask him what he is into sexually. Tell him what you like. It's far, far better to discover you're sexually incompatible at the dinner table instead of in the bedroom. Many men wouldn't dream of asking about this stuff for fear of offending.

    Finally? Learn how to say no. If you aren't comfortable with saying no, perhaps you shouldn't be dating in the first place. This goes for both men and women. It's quite likely that the other person thinks that he or she is dealing with an adult who can and will assert him/herself. And of course, for more problematic situations, learn to say "oh, I totally would but there's this sore/discharge/etc that won't go away, I kept meaning to get that checked, I'll go to the doctor and get back to you".
    So, women have to learn more than men. You definitely have a lot more advice for them, and trust me, I'm sure women are sick to death of men telling them what they should do in order to feel safe.

    If anything, everyone should be listening to women and hearing from them instead of sending suggestions that will always be from an outside perspective if you don't identify as female.

    Maybe focus a little less on Dansplaining...

    Yes, queer people have to deal with a lot too, as do trans and nonbinary people. We can hear our own community experiences. I know if a straight person started to tell me what I should do to feel safe on a date with another man, I'd probably see the postive intent, but question the ability to understand the experience.

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