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Thread: The Beekeeper

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Wout View Post
    Tell me where there are 80's rock guitars on TBK. Cause I'm really curious where you might hear those.
    Re, conceited: read up on some interviews from that era...
    But I guess we're not going to agree on this.
    Right but Tori's interviews about a given album have nothing to do with the music! she said some pretty inane things promoting UTP and BFP too. She's always been nuts! But AATS if anything is one of Tori's most compassionate albums, most loving.

    80s guitars:
    Sweet the Sting
    General Joy
    Chorus of Goodbye Pisces

  2. #17
    :: dutch oven :: wout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peace Bitch View Post
    Right but Tori's interviews about a given album have nothing to do with the music!
    It is if she talks about her, uhm I dunno, music. And she did that a lot, And she made it sound a lot more deep/special/complex/superior than it turned out to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peace Bitch View Post
    But AATS if anything is one of Tori's most compassionate albums, most loving.
    Uh, no. Matter of taste perhaps, but no way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peace Bitch View Post
    80s guitars:
    Sweet the Sting
    General Joy
    Chorus of Goodbye Pisces
    And no again. First, that's not 'all over TBK'. That's 3 songs out of 19 that feature some guitars. Second, that's not 80s rock guitar you're hearing. That's the occasional background lick. Remember that wailing on the first chorus of Almost Rosey? Teenage Hustling? That's 80s rock guitar. TBK is anything but (80s) rock.

    Of course this is all in my opinion yadda yadda yadda.
    / fairy wings
    post28!

  3. #18
    Beekeeper has grown on me, which was the first time that a Tori album had to do so. Like many of you, I was taken aback and, after Scarlet (which I liked), was worried that it was several more steps down the path to Candyland. The awful album cover only lead further that direction. However, since several other albums have been released since then that have vastly different sounds, I can appreciate Beekeeps more. Overall, it's helped me accept that her journey as an artist isn't always going to go the route I would have set for her (I always liked darker, edgier Tori), but that it can still be one that I enjoy following.

    First, some songs are amazing to me: The Beekeeper, Martha's Foolish Ginger, Barons of Sub. Others have grown: Knickers, Parasol.

    Also, when I stripped away the concept and ignored what Tori spouted in explanation, I could accept it more. I felt like Tori made up a bunch of bull-shit about the album so that 'Husband' wouldn't feel so bad, and that she's been doing that ever since, but when I listen to it as an album about a woman who found her lover cheating, the betrayal, the issues, the decisions and possibilities surrounding the situation, the attempt to heal and expand - I was able to accept the album much more.

    With that said: I had the doctor scrub my brain with bleach to erase a few infamous Beesleeper tracks, but it mostly got rid of my brains - the songs are still there.

  4. #19
    Senior Member Cairn's Avatar
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    And no again. First, that's not 'all over TBK'. That's 3 songs out of 19 that feature some guitars. Second, that's not 80s rock guitar you're hearing. That's the occasional background lick. Remember that wailing on the first chorus of Almost Rosey? Teenage Hustling? That's 80s rock guitar. TBK is anything but (80s) rock.

    Of course this is all in my opinion yadda yadda yadda.
    Well, it's not ALL your opinion Wout. Music history classes teach "the sounds or eras." The term 80's rock guitar definitely defines a very particular sound, and it is very definitely not all over The Beekeeper, and most certainly not Sweet the Sting.

  5. #20
    What kind of fuckery is this? emptytuileries's Avatar
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    Easily (in my opinion) her worst album. I can't say I ever want to sit down and listen to it by choice. There's only a handful of songs that I would call decent.

  6. #21
    Lyrical acuity and mum-smarts menju56's Avatar
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    This was the first thing I heard/saw in its entirety from TBK era. Tori on Letterman, February 17, 2005. I taped it when it was on late night in the UK on ITV2! (The days before YouTube). I quite liked it! And I thought she looked nice. Although at some points, like at the 1:50 mark, it's as if her right eyebrow is screaming: "PLEASE! MUST. RAISE. HIGHER!"


  7. #22
    best finest surgeon JHV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mumblefuck View Post
    Also, when I stripped away the concept and ignored what Tori spouted in explanation, I could accept it more. I felt like Tori made up a bunch of bull-shit about the album so that 'Husband' wouldn't feel so bad, and that she's been doing that ever since, but when I listen to it as an album about a woman who found her lover cheating, the betrayal, the issues, the decisions and possibilities surrounding the situation, the attempt to heal and expand - I was able to accept the album much more.
    Yes. The album is much stronger if you don't get wrapped up in the gardens/Tori's stuff in PBP/interviews. There's a lot of darkness and sadness underneath the sunny production, and also some pretty challenging ideas about religion to put out coming off of a major mainstream success like SW. I've always felt that Tori pushed the songs to be softer to capitalize on SW's success and talked about Mary Magdalene so much to capitalize on DaVinci Code and try to push her religious thoughts out there again, and it harmed the actual album/songs.

    I do think this is a better record overall than ADP and AATS. The best tracks on here are far above what's on those albums, and while there's some crap on TBK, a lot of the songs have since been redeemed by better live versions (especially Jamaica Inn, Sleeps With Butterflies, and Cars and Guitars minus the chachas).

    Also, I have always loved Goodbye Pisces, I think it's a great little pop song with some heart. I think more people would like it if it hadn't always been paired with China on the 2005 tour.

  8. #23
    :: dutch oven :: wout's Avatar
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    Re, Pisces: I can stand Cha-ch-ch-cha's and all, but the yai-daidai-daidai-dah's of pisces? Poop!
    post28!

  9. #24
    best finest surgeon JHV's Avatar
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    ^Here's a live version without the yai-daidai-daidai-dah's. It's surprisingly melancholy compared to the studio version, but that tends to hold true for most of the Beekeeper tracks.

  10. #25
    :: dutch oven :: wout's Avatar
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    Soooooooooo much better!
    (I still hate the obvious metaphores in the lyrics though)
    post28!

  11. #26
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    This is Pisces from 09 Orlando with a beautiful intro improv




    I think this song would also sound awesome live with the harpsichord. I think it would boost the energy up. To me Pisces is an angry song, not a slow thing that leads into China.

    eta: I didn't see that headlikeahole posted the same thing in the improv thread. Great minds think alike.

  12. #27
    I don't think TBK hangs together very well as an album--definitely the beginning of this era of too-long albums, though the sequencing is generally okay--but the biggest problem for me is the production. The songwriting is REALLY great in some parts, and there are some songs that they produced perfectly--the title track, Mary's--but then there are some that are just totally defanged by the boring "jam band" sound, like studio Parasol. Studio Parasol is...nice, I guess...but it's NOTHING compared to the solo performance.

    "See everything as an illusion, and enjoy it even though you are not of it."
    ~Alanis Morissette, paraphrased

  13. #28
    ٩(●̮̮̃̃)۶ tornado's Avatar
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    I agree with Mr. Mark, The Beekeeper's production values are really lame but it has some a few good songs scattered on it songwriting wise.

    In Boston, at the end of the last proper tour, she performed Jamaica Inn, a song that normally makes me reach for the skip button in a nanosecond, but the openness of her emotional intensity during that performance actually made me realize it's really quite lovely as a song. Is it Precious Things? No, but it's kinda lovely in a mellow, non-threatening sort of way.

    I'd actually love her to do an unplugged album of some of the songs of the last ten years. I think we'd find that some of them are actually great songs drowning in overblown production.

    However, some of those songs, (see: Sweet The Sting, Sleeps With Butterflies) would be lame even if she played them solo on a harpsichord! LOL

  14. #29
    Hurt people hurt people too toriMODE's Avatar
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    Oh The Beekeeper. I remember when it leaked, and I listened to it with candles lit with my best friend Kelly in my bedroom at my old place. We drank wine while listening to it. I remember us cringing during Sleeps with Butterflies. I remember getting teary-eyed during Mother Revolution's lyric -- "you could've had me right there beside you." I gave a copy of this album to my then new boyfriend, and so that whole time period I have tied to him through that album. My favorites were The Beekeeper, General Joy, Sweet the Sting, and Original Sinsuality. Since then I've really gotten attached to The Power of Orange Knickers and of course Garlands from the dvd portion of the album. When it has snowed, the few times, that it has here in Alabama, I will pop in the dvd, and watch Garlands.

  15. #30
    best finest surgeon JHV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Markness View Post
    I don't think TBK hangs together very well as an album--definitely the beginning of this era of too-long albums, though the sequencing is generally okay--but the biggest problem for me is the production. The songwriting is REALLY great in some parts, and there are some songs that they produced perfectly--the title track, Mary's--but then there are some that are just totally defanged by the boring "jam band" sound, like studio Parasol. Studio Parasol is...nice, I guess...but it's NOTHING compared to the solo performance.
    That performance is the best Parasol ever. It has so much more intensity than the studio version and it brings out all the hurt in the song.

    Quote Originally Posted by tornado View Post
    In Boston, at the end of the last proper tour, she performed Jamaica Inn, a song that normally makes me reach for the skip button in a nanosecond, but the openness of her emotional intensity during that performance actually made me realize it's really quite lovely as a song. Is it Precious Things? No, but it's kinda lovely in a mellow, non-threatening sort of way.
    Jamaica Inn was actually GREAT last tour. I never thought I'd like that song, but the new intro and it being solely on the piano instead of piano/organ held my interest musically and then the lyrics were able to click.

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