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Thread: The Beekeeper

  1. #1216
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEP View Post
    one thing i don't think she gets enough credit for about this era/tour is the insane number of covers she debuted on that tour with the whole Piano Bar thing. i mean it must have been like at least what 50 songs she'd never played live before ever?

  2. #1217
    to the loneliest city in the world other pete's Avatar
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    The interview above reminded me: one thing that cooled my connection to TBK was how deeply submerged in Christian minutiae the whole thing seemed to be, even by Tori's standards.

    Every story she told while promoting it seemed to come back to her explaining "You see, in the Bible it says XXXX, but actually it should've said XXXX+a". Now obviously, Christianity runs right through her music and philosophy (was there some family connection? I forget) and it would be completely missing the point to object to that in any way, but I think there was a significant change of gear with TBK - like its entire concept was built around Tori's Mission To Save Christianity, instead of breaking away from it.

    Sure, the gnonstick gospels have been in the mix all along - even I have a copy of The Bloodline of the Holy Grail (not a patch on the Monthy Python version TBH) - but where "I think the good book is missing some pages" was a notion it was easy to align with as someone from a religion-free background, "I think the good book had a paragraph removed from page 38137 ... and here it is: Mayrays! Hawks not Hawks! Light the lamp for erryone!", while coming from a similar root... well it's a different thing to be articulating.

    So while I could easily empathise with her previous religious/rebellious songwriting because I had very similar things to rebel against, TBK wants to fix "our" religion, and I felt excluded from that dialogue. I guess that can be called maturity as her anger moved to engagement, but it wasn't something I could get so personally involved with, particularly as I was immersed in Philip Pullman and Richard Dawkins then - it seemed very odd that she didn't engage with their output - especially Pullman's at that time.

    Sha na na na.

  3. #1218
    she said destroy Lágnætti's Avatar
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    I just remember sitting transfixed with disbelief and then horror at that first leak of Sleeps With Butterflies. Between the awful Sonic Xanax feel to it and the fact it seemed to be about acceptin' your husband's need to shag other wimmins because damn it, you're worth coming home to even if you are a bit of a weirdo I was already done. Then another track ... was it Cars and Guitars that leaked next? Then that video with Tori done up like a permed, sequinned fifty-something having her pic taken for hubby on a cruise ... god almighty. The horror. Her desperate housewife album .. for real.

    Seriously, it was all over before I'd even got chance to think 'Gosh, Tori's soundin' awfully Christian these days, eh?' The ensuing, year-long shitstorm on @ was the best thing about the entire era.
    Last edited by Lágnætti; 03-17-2014 at 10:56 PM.

  4. #1219
    Senior Member wheretheorchidsgrow93's Avatar
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    I'd just *love* to see the TBK thread on the old forum. I bet it was a barrel of laughs. I do adore TBK deep down though. Ireland and all.

  5. #1220
    A Matter Of How You See It Kala's Avatar
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    me too! i joined in 2007 so i missed all the kerfuffle surrounding The Beekeeper. but on the brighter side, i really became involved on the forum once ADP hit the shelves and i remember a few smart, expressive, and gutsy posters like kundavega criticizing it and getting all sorts of flack for speaking her mind.

  6. #1221
    she said destroy Lágnætti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheretheorchidsgrow93 View Post
    I'd just *love* to see the TBK thread on the old forum. I bet it was a barrel of laughs.
    It was very serious business. Borders were redrawn, friendships reconsidered. The flame wars may have contributed to global warming. Things went to Defcon 5 when KundaRachel uttered (typed) the immortal line 'Now her music is as botoxed as her face.'

  7. #1222
    Quote Originally Posted by julius ebola View Post
    I just remember sitting transfixed with disbelief and then horror at that first leak of Sleeps With Butterflies. Between the awful Sonic Xanax feel to it and the fact it seemed to be about acceptin' your husband's need to shag other wimmins because damn it, you're worth coming home to even if you are a bit of a weirdo I was already done. Then another track ... was it Cars and Guitars that leaked next? Then that video with Tori done up like a permed, sequinned fifty-something having her pic taken for hubby on a cruise ... god almighty. The horror. Her desperate housewife album .. for real.

    Seriously, it was all over before I'd even got chance to think 'Gosh, Tori's soundin' awfully Christian these days, eh?' The ensuing, year-long shitstorm on @ was the best thing about the entire era.
    God, yes. Desperate Housewives album for sure. Fucking Hoochie Woman. Really? Also, many fans still weren't fan of the scarlet sound and subsequent scarlitization of everything. So to get another dirge of mediocrity resulted in violent fan card burning.

    And Pete, I think it was the first time I maybe realized that Tori Amos WAS a christian and not the symbol of paganism and mysticism that I (unfairly) viewed her as. Which was a shock to my little fan boy worship.

    Friendships were lost during that time! How funny now to think about it. How fucking trivial.

  8. #1223
    and it sounds like all our lives Kari's Avatar
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    Oh god. Realizing Tori actually was maybe actually a Christian SUCKED. It took me forever to wrap my head around it, although it makes total sense. What Pagan is THAT OBSESSED with Jesus?

  9. #1224
    A Matter Of How You See It Kala's Avatar
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    oh Tori is a Christian alright. her kid's GODfather is Neil Gaiman -- meaning Tash was christened. you don't have your kid (raises hand) baptized unless you still believe in some of the churches' sacraments, especially with respect to minors.

  10. #1225
    Get Out The Dark Adam's Avatar
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    Yeah. I think she doesn't like to explicitly state her religious affiliations in public as it would go against her image. And I understand completely as I think she is a "Christian" in a radically different way than what we consider it to mean to be a modern day Christian. So in order to avoid having to explain that " Yea. I wrote a song called God that got people screaming blasphemy... and I detest modern day Christianity but am a believer in Christ" , which would then cause countless minds to blow up, she just stays quiet. And writes TBK.

    It's funny cause I don't ever remember reading any discussion about this back in the day. Did we all just silently go "Well I'll be damned! She's a Christian?!?!" and never dare speak of it?

    It was so obvious with that album that I played it for my parents in order to say " Here. Remember that artist I like that you think is satanic? Listen to this. It's a total Christian album. " Even they were shocked.
    The Landslide Never Brought, Brought Me Down

  11. #1226
    Senior Member AshaBlack's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm just not that switched on with Christianity that much but I never thought of TBK as Christian. I know there's references in a couple of tracks but not many from my understanding.


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  12. #1227
    Butts. soignee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AshaBlack View Post
    Maybe I'm just not that switched on with Christianity that much but I never thought of TBK as Christian. I know there's references in a couple of tracks but not many from my understanding.
    I get a few of the references, but I always thought of it as the same level as her exploring mythology as she does with Persephone/Melusine etc. Might be me reading into that though, as I didn't grow up with Bible references shoved down my throat like it is in some parts of the US.

    Religion, death and family seem to be pretty heavy on that album, huh? With a dose of "we need marriage counselling" and "I love my daughter SO MUCH" on the side.

  13. #1228
    Senior Member AshaBlack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soignee View Post
    I get a few of the references, but I always thought of it as the same level as her exploring mythology as she does with Persephone/Melusine etc. Might be me reading into that though, as I didn't grow up with Bible references shoved down my throat like it is in some parts of the US.

    Religion, death and family seem to be pretty heavy on that album, huh? With a dose of "we need marriage counselling" and "I love my daughter SO MUCH" on the side.
    Yeah I always took it as an album that has religious themes in it but not as a 'Christian' album.


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  14. #1229
    and it sounds like all our lives Kari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kala View Post
    oh Tori is a Christian alright. her kid's GODfather is Neil Gaiman -- meaning Tash was christened. you don't have your kid (raises hand) baptized unless you still believe in some of the churches' sacraments, especially with respect to minors.
    I'm not at all surprised she had Tash baptized, though. I suspect that it would have broken her dad's heart if she didn't. Parents sometimes go through sacraments to please the family even if they're not devout. It just...there was something about the way she talked about religion during that time that made me no longer feel like she was challenging it as much as sort of admiring/luxuriating in it. And that made me go :/. But I'm long over it. It's not like she's a fundie or something.

  15. #1230
    Robbing the muse... Beelust's Avatar
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    Isn't there an interview from 2009 or 2011 where someone asks what she believes and she mentions Native American beliefs and just being a general spiritual person. I always looked at The Beekeeper as Tori just attacking the patriarchy again. Kind of her saying: if Christianity were even real, Mary and the women's / sensual side of the story should be told. Aren't the only songs on the album about this Original Sinsuality and Marys of the Sea?

    As Kari mentioned, I think she just respects the beliefs of her father - more of a tolerance thing with Christianity - he has his beliefs and she has her own personal spirituality. I am thinking if Tori had to check off her religion in a survey, she would check 'other', not Christianity.
    Last edited by Beelust; 03-18-2014 at 05:36 PM.

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