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Thread: American Doll Posse

  1. #31
    I strongly dislike this album. It's terrible. The production blows. Most of the songs blow. The concept blows. The cover blows big time. If it hadn't been for the pretty stellar live shows she'd been doing in Europe I'd have been out as a Tori fan.

    Bouncing off Clouds and Big Wheel are OK, although her pronounciation of 'clouds' leaves a lot to be desired! I like Mr Bad Man, Code Red and My Posse Can Do. But I won't listen to anything else. Yo George, Beauty of Speed and Body & Soul are much better live, and the solo Dragon at the Jazz Cafe was nice. Girl Disappearing is a poor man's Famous Blue Raincoat, Roosterspur, Posse Bonus, Devils and Gods, Digital Ghost, Bring Ur Dog etc are trite.

    And the number of tracks was just ridiculous. But the biggest issue was definitely the production. I'm sure in some interview she mentioned something along the lines of this album being an audiophile's dream (or words to that effect) in regards to the production. I dunno, maybe whatever speaker setup they have at Martian influenced Tori to produce the album in this style but I just do not like it.

    And it's a shame. I remember seeing the 'Shame' photo and thinking "this is gonna be good". Then I saw the tracklisting and until I read the official email was convinced it was a wind up (Programmable Soda?! really?). Then heard a low quality stream of BoC, then saw the cover. So by the time the album leaked my expectations were reduced somewhat. It's actually the only Tori album I haven't bought.

    I have an inkling if she'd reduced the track length and recorded the album live it would be much, much better.

    ETA: (Cross posted from the Fori thread)
    Quote Originally Posted by SageBrushFire View Post
    ADP should have been a 5-disc box set, 1 for each doll with their original songs and their back-catalog songs (re-recorded and remixed). That would have been cooler than A Piano.
    No, no, a thousand times NO!

    Sorry for the negativity, but I do not like this album (he says while listening to Teenage Hustling. damn!)

  2. #32
    Lyrical acuity and mum-smarts menju56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottish Mike View Post
    I'm sure in some interview she mentioned something along the lines of this album being an audiophile's dream (or words to that effect) in regards to the production. I dunno, maybe whatever speaker setup they have at Martian influenced Tori to produce the album in this style but I just do not like it.
    I have often wondered this. They probably have amazing sound in Martian but I wonder whether she ever plays her records on a normal CD player or headphones or in her car to see how it sounds like the way, you know, everyone else will hear it.

    Each record is produced quite differently though so I do think what she does is intentional. FTCH and SLG are amazing productions imo, I think SW's production is perfect for those songs and that sound, and even TBK has a soft production style that is consistent. And then AATS is a return to a more spacious, experimental, sonically varied production style. ADP though of all of them sounds kind of airless and dry to me. But I think song-wise there's some great stuff here.

  3. #33
    best finest surgeon JHV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menju56 View Post
    I have often wondered this. They probably have amazing sound in Martian but I wonder whether she ever plays her records on a normal CD player or headphones or in her car to see how it sounds like the way, you know, everyone else will hear it.

    Each record is produced quite differently though so I do think what she does is intentional. FTCH and SLG are amazing productions imo, I think SW's production is perfect for those songs and that sound, and even TBK has a soft production style that is consistent. And then AATS is a return to a more spacious, experimental, sonically varied production style. ADP though of all of them sounds kind of airless and dry to me. But I think song-wise there's some great stuff here.
    I know there was some speculation that Tori and the guys mixed the record to sound best on vinyl (which would be dumb, but I could see it). Anyone with a vinyl copy of ADP test out how the album sounded in different formats?

  4. #34
    Hurt people hurt people too toriMODE's Avatar
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    For the fun of it: My ADP Edit:

    Big Wheel
    Bouncing off Clouds
    Smokey Joe
    Girl Disappearing
    Devils and Gods
    Dragon
    Body and Soul
    Code Red
    Roosterspur Bridge
    Beauty of Speed
    Almost Rosey (solo)
    Dark Side of the Sun

  5. #35
    Lyrical acuity and mum-smarts menju56's Avatar
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    I remember when she played a radio session for Radio Eins in Berlin on April 10, 2007, about three weeks before the album came out. She debuted Velvet Revolution, Father's Son, Beauty of Speed, and Almost Rosey and they sounded really brilliant.

  6. #36
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    ^The last time I remember seeing her looking good wigless.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by menju56 View Post
    I have often wondered this. They probably have amazing sound in Martian but I wonder whether she ever plays her records on a normal CD player or headphones or in her car to see how it sounds like the way, you know, everyone else will hear it.
    +100. Completely.

    Sometimes I wonder what happened to Tori's hearing, because I have a pretty decent audio system but the songs still sound like a layer of mud is caked over them when they play. I used to have a friend who was legally (but not fully) deaf who always said she loved Tori because she could hear so many varied layers in the music, but that was gone with ADP.

    I think of songs like Beauty of Speed which could have been taken to a much higher level with good production. It sounds two-dimensional to me. In a different universe, I imagine BOS was so good that dance mixes were being played at gay clubs and thumping bass was added behind more shimmery keyboards.

    As many of you said...the "art" for ADP was a fail on every level, from the photoshopped collage to the actual printing on the physical paper to the simple visual design aspects. I didn't HAVE to dislike the doll concept, but if the characters were so different, I would have like to have seen them in real life settings instead of each in failed America's Next Top Model photo-shoots.

  8. #38
    holding on for tonight Waylon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menju56 View Post
    I remember when she played a radio session for Radio Eins in Berlin on April 10, 2007, about three weeks before the album came out. She debuted Velvet Revolution, Father's Son, Beauty of Speed, and Almost Rosey and they sounded really brilliant.
    I absolutely adored that version of Velvet Revolution (and still do, actually)...it had this almost Russian sound to it that seemed pretty new. Then I heard the album version and it just wasn't as good. Sad sad sad.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    This was the first album that came out after I became a fan.

    After seeing the picture with the bible and blood, I was excited because I thought we'd get something dark like choirgirl (my second favorite Tori album, SW being the first). Then the tracklist came out. 23 songs? Posse Bonus? Dragon? Mr. Bad Man? Fat Slut? Digital Ghost? These didn't sound like titles for dark/emotional songs. There was also a rumor before the album came out that it would be 12 tracks. LOL.

    Then I heard the solo versions of the songs that she did to promote the album. The excitement was back. Then ADP came out. I didn't outright hate it at first. I liked some of it but I didn't love it. Some of my favorites from the solo show like Beauty of Speed and Almost Rosey were butchered in the studio with annoying electric guitars. After awhile I started to hate it with a passion and only listened to my favorites (Bouncing Off Clouds, Beauty of Speed (mostly the live solo version), Smokey Joe, and maybe a few others). I didn't listen to most of it for up to a year. It became my least favorite Tori album.

    Then AATS came out and I hated it so much that I decided to give ADP another chance. I fell in love with it. It was full of energy and each song was tight. Even the little interludes that I hated with a passion before, I could now actually enjoy. I even love the three b-sides from this era.

    Overall, I really enjoy this album and have no trouble listening it from beginning to end.
    I had a different experience (I was in love with ADP for months after it came out, then my love for it faded away and I never listened to it again.) but I get what you mean about AATS. I really enjoyed AATS but something about it coming out made me want to listed to ADP again and I started liking songs I hated before.


    I like the Posse Bonus and the fact that most of the B-sides are on the CD so I don't have to track them down. I also think Posse Bonus should have started about 6 songs ealier and Dragon/Smokey Joe should have been on the main part of the album.

    My ADP would have looked like this:

    01. Yo George
    02. Big Wheel
    03. Bouncing Off Clouds
    04. Teenage Hustling
    05. Digital Ghost
    06. Girl Disappearing
    07. Almost Rosey
    08. Drive All Night
    09. Devils and Gods
    10. Body and Soul
    11. Beauty of Speed
    12. Code Red
    13. Smokey Joe
    14. Dragon

    Bonus (DVD or End of CD) or Hell it could be a whole different CD.

    15. Posse Bonus
    16. Programmable Soda
    17. My Posse Can Do
    18. Secret Spell
    19. Mr. Bad Man
    20. Fat Slut
    21. You Can Bring Your Dog
    22. Roosterspur Bridge
    23. Miracle
    24. Velvet Revolution
    25. Father's Son
    26. Dark Side of the Sun

  10. #40
    ^ I've gotten used to the album now and don't mind that there are 23 songs there, but I really like your 14-track version. I bet it would be much more appreciated if that was the tracklist. I would take out Drive All Night (which I love, but it doesn't really go with the rest of the songs) and replace it with Father's Son (a song that I used to find boring, but now really love).

  11. #41
    Ugggggghhhhhhh Octopussy's Avatar
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    I still love this album!! The production is awful, her worst ever IMO, but as far as songwriting goes it beats AATS without even breaking a sweat. It's an endearing mess and I like the mix of typical Tori Amos and surprising "character" songs - although picking one or the other would've made a more coherent album. But more than anything I especially love the fact that Tori can churn out radio-ready pop singles that stay true to her nature as an artist.

    All of that said, it's the production and the performance of a few songs (Code Red namely) that drag this album into mediocre territory. Tori has been producing her own albums for over a decade, there is no reason to create something so sterile, bland and amateurish as this. Maybe there were too many songs and they were in a hurry. In which case - EDIT EDIT EDIT. Bouncing Off Clouds deserved so much better - the vocal is not the greatest, so giving that amazing rhythm section room to breathe could've made this an undisputed classic, even bigger than Fairytale.
    Last edited by Octopussy; 06-24-2010 at 02:01 AM.

  12. #42
    Ugggggghhhhhhh Octopussy's Avatar
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    oh and I adore Miracle and Drive All Night. And after hearing the Violet's Eyes demo, I wonder if Tori left them off the album because Epic would've forced her to make them singles, and they (Miracle, at least) are too personal to her.

  13. #43
    I agree! I think Miracle and Drive All Night are two of the best songs from that era. In my edit, I've replaced DSOTS and Father's Son with these two. Drive All Night is actually in my top five of all time.

    I like the rough vocal on BOC. I can understand why someone wouldn't though. I think it gives a much needed texture and adds character.

  14. #44
    I'd never re-sequenced any of the albums (or any album for that reason), but upon reading this thread, I've tried it and think it makes a world of difference. All of your playlists helped. I don't have DRIVE ALL NIGHT, so I couldn't add that, but:

    I love opening with BOS and into Miracle...it changes the entire mood of the album for me. I deleted the interludes. I just don't like any of them - they feel spat out before they were fully developed.

    1. Beauty of Speed
    2. Miracle
    3. Dragon
    4. Digital Ghost
    5. Code Red
    6. Body & Soul
    7. Bouncing off Clouds
    8. Roosterspur Bridge
    9. Programmable Soda <---- I'm debating pulling this over to the "Posse Bonuses" disc.
    10. Big Wheel
    11. Smokey Joe
    12. Teenage Hustling
    13. Almost Rosey
    14. Girl Disappearing <---I could do without this one probably as well, but figure it's okay as a closer.

    Most of the rest are on Posse Bonuses (Disk 2).
    Last edited by Mumblefuck; 06-24-2010 at 04:48 PM. Reason: Doh!

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    ^ I've gotten used to the album now and don't mind that there are 23 songs there, but I really like your 14-track version. I bet it would be much more appreciated if that was the tracklist. I would take out Drive All Night (which I love, but it doesn't really go with the rest of the songs) and replace it with Father's Son (a song that I used to find boring, but now really love).
    Yes, from a producer perspective I would do the exact same. Drive All Night is just a guilty pleasure song for me :P

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