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Thread: Lena Dunham's Girls

  1. #16
    it's a long long climb Kari's Avatar
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    It's not about likeability for me, it's about caring. I can hate a character but still care. I don't particularly care about Hannah yet, and I'm interested to see if I will grow to care about her at all. Honestly, I didn't care about any of those people.

  2. #17
    see a sea anemone devnull's Avatar
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    Good point!

    I recently started Curb Your Enthusiasm and Larry David's semi-autobiographical character is a good comparison to the Lena Dunham character. Curb's Larry David is one of the more flawed characters on TV but somehow it makes me care about him all the more. He never feels smug or oblivious.

    Haha, all this meta talk over one episode. Clearly the show hit a nerve. Though I don't think anyone would particularly care about it if HBO and the critics hadn't crowned Lena Dunham The Voice of Her Generation out of freaking nowhere.

  3. #18
    it's a long long climb Kari's Avatar
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    It's interesting, though. If Dunham's characters were male...would we like them more? That seems to be the main question for me. I am examining my own internalized shit (of which there is plenty...I am reprogramming myself, or attempting to), and I can't help but wonder about that.

    The other problem is that she has written NONE of these girls to be aspirational figures, which is both interesting and tricky. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, there was at least ONE character on SATC who made you stop for a minute and go "she's fucked up, but I kind of want her life/want to be her". Same with Mad Men - Don Draper is not what you'd call "likeable", but he is aspirational. Same with Larry David - yeah, he's a dick, but he is uber rich and successful. These gals are just...there. They are not who we want to be or who we aspire to...but maybe that's the point. Maybe they will BECOME something to aspire to? I dunno. It's an interesting trajectory if that's what she's trying to do, but I've absolutely got to give a crap. Right now I don't.

    It is really nice that these girls eat real food, though.

  4. #19
    see a sea anemone devnull's Avatar
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    I had trouble with Entourage for similar reasons despite a couple of the sidekicks and secondary characters being far more likable than anyone in this show so far.

    (now that I'm thinking of it, if they introduced an Ari Gold type it'd improve things a lot)

  5. #20
    proud saab owner Gale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_P View Post
    The characters aren't particularly likeable and I was really kind of bothered by the main character eating a cupcake in the bathtub.
    I was reading the comments on Entertainment Weekly's site, and a lot of people had the same opinion about that scene you mentioned. Was she really eating a cupcake in the bathtub while a friend shaved her legs? Seriously?

  6. #21
    Err, I've eaten while in the bathtub before. But not while someone else shaved my legs.

  7. #22
    it's a long long climb Kari's Avatar
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    Yes. And it was as twee as you'd imagine.

    H - i SO AGREE. This show needs an Ari Gold desperately.

  8. #23
    so what if i like pretty things Bryan Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    These gals are just...there.
    This short sentence completely sums up what I was thinking after the first episode. Even when "stuff" was "happening,", it felt so...uninspired, or bored or something. Make sense?
    tuna rubber a little blubber in my igloo

  9. #24
    I haven't watched Girls, but apparently it's really, really white. White people! Everywhere! Anyway, if you aren't white and you're a little sore about the whole lack of representation in TV and film and all the things, one of the staff writers from the show has some snark for you.



    God, minorities. Give them an inch, right?

  10. #25
    it's a long long climb Kari's Avatar
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    Wow.

    ETA: There are so many layers of wrong there I don't even know. The only representation of African Americans you can think of is fucking PRECIOUS??!

  11. #26
    she said destroy Lágnætti's Avatar
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    Wait ... she was serious? I read that as her being facetious as hell because nobody could possibly be that ... could they?

    Anyway, a show about four annoying white women in NYC with mysteriously awesome finances and no minorities in sight, like anywhere? Sound awfully familiar.

    ETA: OH I SEE. I SEE.

    I found the Jezebel article and she's for real! Christ, where do these people come from (rhetorical question, I know exactly where they come from and I wish they'd fuck off back there)? This is a writer who referred to taking a dump as taking Obama to the White House. She probably IS aggrieved that there's a film somewhere about black women that doesn't acknowledge the tragic plight of rich, white self-absorbed trust fund kiddies with dubious 'careers' in 'media'.

  12. #27
    it's a long long climb Kari's Avatar
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    Even if she was being facetious, that's a fucking shitty way to respond to perfectly legitimate criticisms. Precious is also a horrifyingly offensive example. Because white people couldn't be sexually abused by their family and live in poverty?? OKAY!

    And yes, Helen, it bears resemblance to SATC, but lacking the likeable characters and fun clothes.

  13. #28
    it's a long long climb Kari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julius ebola View Post
    This is a writer who referred to taking a dump as taking Obama to the White House..
    NO SHE DIDN'T. ARE YOU SERIOUS. OMG.

  14. #29
    fluid, affectionate, chaste, mature Mackerel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whappo View Post
    I haven't watched Girls, but apparently it's really, really white. White people! Everywhere! Anyway, if you aren't white and you're a little sore about the whole lack of representation in TV and film and all the things, one of the staff writers from the show has some snark for you.
    God, minorities. Give them an inch, right?
    ...sigh.

    What upsets me especially about all this is that these stupid shows are purportedly set in NYC, right? Diversity Capital of the US? Can't take one step without hearing a different language spoken? But somehow when yet another show set in that area is heralded for being "daring" and "real" and the "voice of a generation" it's always with the unspoken caveat that, well, it's real only if we suspend our disbelief and go along with the writers' premise that NYC is made up of mostly white people.

    I have some aspiring tv writer type liberal friends based in the NY area who hang out with a diverse circle, and when I read their semi-autobiographical NYC script and see all of their characters are all mysteriously white without exception it's like, dslfjkskjkfdjk..!!! To be honest, it feels downright hurtful to me, like they're willfully excluding me from their created reality. It makes me wonder who they see when they hang out with me or any of their other non-white friends - do they just round me up to being a white person in their heads? I'm tired of nodding along and pretending that it isn't completely fucking absurd to have Brooklyn, which is only one-third white, look like this:


  15. #30
    it's a long long climb Kari's Avatar
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    I try REALLY HARD to write characters that can be cast with a minority actor and not have it matter (with caveats that moms and daughters should look like they are related). For example, my new play had a big male part and we cast a Korean guy in the part because he was really fucking good. Did I write the part for a Korean guy? No. I wrote the part for a male actor with chops. The part was open to anyone. Same with the female leads. I am proud to say that one of those roles went to a wonderful African American actress. It is not a maid, a nanny, or a fucking sassy fast food worker (if I see one more of those things, I SWEAR). I haven't written any ethnicity-specific roles yet, though that's changing with my next one.

    I think white people get scared of writing ethnic characters. I think they're afraid that they will accidentally stereotype, so they avoid it. I get it. I do. However, if you are going to write a New York City narrative that takes place somewhere other than Certain Hoods on the Isle of Manhattan, you BEST have a fucking non-Caucasian in there somewhere. I live in a neighborhood that is comprised of the most diverse ethnic population in the world. My friends are like a rainbow coalition at this point. If I didn't include them in that, I should hope they would be dreadfully pissed off at me. It fucking pisses me off these girls had the opportunity to be inclusive and didn't take it.

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