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Thread: so you want an ak-47: unfs gun control or lack thereof party thread

  1. #1576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    Yes, these are good points. Gun ownership transcends class, status, education, you name it. Almost 40% of the US population owns a gun.
    Actually, it kind of doesn't. Sure, lots of different people own a gun or two, but the majority of gun owners fit a certain mold. I'll give you a hint...they're mostly young/middle aged white dudes, Republican, not terribly educated (no college degree), that live in the south/midwest. Ooops...guess I gave it away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey View Post
    All races are proportionally represented in American crazy shooters, I think. Except for people of Asian descent, who are somehow overrepresented.
    Nope...they're mostly white guys.
    Last edited by Charles; 10-06-2017 at 01:53 PM.

  2. #1577
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Gun stores sell out of bump stocks after Las Vegas shooter used them.

    Which goes to show that mass shootings are basically advertisements for firearms manufacturers.

  3. #1578
    Junior Member kykeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post

    The recent referendum on Catalonian independence is a great example. Do you know who the top tweeters were for that topic? Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, and Russia’s RT. Why are they so invested in it? And the same bots who were for Trump and Brexit are now for Catalonian independence, and they supported Le Pen in France, and they railed against Angela Murkel in Germany. Most deplorables don’t know anything about politics outside of the US, so when you see these Twitter accounts called shit like “TrumpMomUSA” throwing their support behind Brexit and Le Pen, you have to ask what the hell is really going on.
    I'm definitely not trying to start an argument here, nor am I expressing an opinion... but do you care to elaborate a bit more on this? I don't quite get the point you're making, and I don't really see how the Catalan question comes into play here.

  4. #1579
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    Quote Originally Posted by kykeon View Post
    I'm definitely not trying to start an argument here, nor am I expressing an opinion... but do you care to elaborate a bit more on this? I don't quite get the point you're making, and I don't really see how the Catalan question comes into play here.
    My point was to elaborate on my previous post about social media being weaponized. There are fake accounts and troll accounts which are being used to shape and control a narrative. The stuff we read in trending tweets and Facebook stories isn’t necessarily how tens or hundreds of thousands of people actually feel, so long as these accounts are able to shape the discussion. It’s happened with the elections all over the world, with Black Lives Matter, with every mass shooting, with every terrorist attack... the bots and trolls come out in waves to stir up trouble because that’s how you keep people distracted and constantly at war with each other.

    A majority of Americans, both Democrats and Republicans, want to at least start with common sense gun laws. But you’d never know that by reading Facebook or Twitter because every discussion is flooded with ridiculous, over the top bullshit about how all mass shooters are Democrats, this is how libtards take away your rights, etc. I’m just pointing out that these conversations often trace back to a handful of provocative accounts, and then it ripples through social media in a very precise and methodical way. It sort of poisons the way people on both sides look at and react to current events.

  5. #1580
    Senior Member Jezebelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    My point was to elaborate on my previous post about social media being weaponized. There are fake accounts and troll accounts which are being used to shape and control a narrative. The stuff we read in trending tweets and Facebook stories isn’t necessarily how tens or hundreds of thousands of people actually feel, so long as these accounts are able to shape the discussion. It’s happened with the elections all over the world, with Black Lives Matter, with every mass shooting, with every terrorist attack... the bots and trolls come out in waves to stir up trouble because that’s how you keep people distracted and constantly at war with each other.

    A majority of Americans, both Democrats and Republicans, want to at least start with common sense gun laws. But you’d never know that by reading Facebook or Twitter because every discussion is flooded with ridiculous, over the top bullshit about how all mass shooters are Democrats, this is how libtards take away your rights, etc. I’m just pointing out that these conversations often trace back to a handful of provocative accounts, and then it ripples through social media in a very precise and methodical way. It sort of poisons the way people on both sides look at and react to current events.
    I thought about that all night last night. It has so many devastating consequences.
    chillin in kyoto grand with my man Skrill

  6. #1581
    Junior Member kykeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    My point was to elaborate on my previous post about social media being weaponized. There are fake accounts and troll accounts which are being used to shape and control a narrative. The stuff we read in trending tweets and Facebook stories isn’t necessarily how tens or hundreds of thousands of people actually feel, so long as these accounts are able to shape the discussion. It’s happened with the elections all over the world, with Black Lives Matter, with every mass shooting, with every terrorist attack... the bots and trolls come out in waves to stir up trouble because that’s how you keep people distracted and constantly at war with each other.

    A majority of Americans, both Democrats and Republicans, want to at least start with common sense gun laws. But you’d never know that by reading Facebook or Twitter because every discussion is flooded with ridiculous, over the top bullshit about how all mass shooters are Democrats, this is how libtards take away your rights, etc. I’m just pointing out that these conversations often trace back to a handful of provocative accounts, and then it ripples through social media in a very precise and methodical way. It sort of poisons the way people on both sides look at and react to current events.
    I see your point, social media & manufactured (in the true sense of the word) opinions. Something like an echo chamber (filled with algorithms and the like).

    I'm still scratching my head about the Catalan thing ... that's an issue that I find very prickly and most definitely not cut & dry. And on that note, I wouldn't discard a variety of views on the matter, even if they come from sources / people that you may not regard with esteem. Say what you will about Assange, Snowden and RT (I'm all ears and I would love to hear you talk more about such sources), they are not "bots." RT definitely has a political agenda 101% of the time, but that shouldn't mean that it can't ever make a fully respectable report or express a thought-provoking opinion.

    Anyway, I totally see your point about the "bots" and so on. I'm just splitting hairs about the Catalan thing

  7. #1582
    Let them eat cheese flan Nancy's Avatar
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    I think people who support independence in Spain should opt for a fully legal, democratic vote, rather than play into Putin's hands.

  8. #1583
    Let them eat cheese flan Nancy's Avatar
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    It's pretty clear that Russia has wreaked havoc not just in the US but in the UK, and tried to do so in other European countries such as France and Germany. I have no doubt that Russia has contributed to and is gleeful about the unrest in Spain.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ratic-it-seems

    But it isn’t that simple. “Catexit”, like Brexit in the UK, is an incendiary issue which divides families, friends and communities in the region. For their own reasons, both the Catalan and Spanish governments have generated confrontation to distract from deep-rooted problems such as endemic corruption and unemployment. Both sides seem determined on pursuing a conflict which will do immense damage and was wholly avoidable.

    The proposal to hold a referendum on independence was sprung on the Catalan parliament with virtually no notice at the begining of September. Fresh from their summer break opposition parties were kept in the dark and caught unawares. No amendments to the proposal were allowed in a debate which lasted less than half a day.

    Not surprisingly, the non-nationalist parties refused to take part in the legislative farce and walked out before the vote so the new Republic, if it happens, will have been born in a half empty chamber with only MPs from the governing parties in their seats. More importantly, the missing MPs from the oppostion parties actually represent more than half the voters in the region.
    Obviously what the country needs is a real democracy with each person actually having a voice in a legitimate election.

  9. #1584
    Let them eat cheese flan Nancy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kykeon View Post
    I'm still scratching my head about the Catalan thing ... that's an issue that I find very prickly and most definitely not cut & dry. And on that note, I wouldn't discard a variety of views on the matter, even if they come from sources / people that you may not regard with esteem. Say what you will about Assange, Snowden and RT (I'm all ears and I would love to hear you talk more about such sources), they are not "bots." RT definitely has a political agenda 101% of the time, but that shouldn't mean that it can't ever make a fully respectable report or express a thought-provoking opinon.
    I have to wonder why people still give Julian Assange the time of day. Is it not obvious to anyone with a grain of sense that he has an agenda a mile wide? Even Edward Snowden has condemned Assange for not allowing legitimate journalists to vet his information before dumping it on all and sundry:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/edwar...c-leaks-2016-7
    National Security Agency contractor turned whistle-blower Edward Snowden chided WikiLeaks on Thursday for its indiscriminate approach to leaking information, barely a week after the antisecrecy organization published 20,000 emails that were obtained in a hacking from the Democratic National Committee.

    The organization possesses a "hostility to even modest curation," Snowden wrote on Twitter.

    WikiLeaks has attracted harsh criticism for failing to curate the information it leaks based on what is legitimately in the public's interest. The organization has also made it a policy not to redact sensitive personal information that may be contained in the documents it exposes.

    "Democratizing information has never been more vital, and @Wikileaks has helped. But their hostility to even modest curation is a mistake." - Edward Snowden
    4:21 PM - Jul 28, 2016
    If you still have any doubt, please refer to Assange's anti-Semitic tweets that he deleted after people called him on his bullshit:

    WikiLeaks removed tweets that described some of its Jewish critics as “establishment climbers.”
    The account, believed to be run by Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, was responding to tweets linking its massive release of Democratic Party leaks with Russia. Russian President Vladimir Putin is believed to back Republican Party nominee Donald Trump, and there is evidence that the hacking into the Democratic National Committee was carried out by Russians.

    “Tribalist symbol for establishment climbers?” said a Wikileaks tweet on Saturday. “Most of our critics have 3 (((brackets around their names))) & have black-rimmed glasses. Bizarre.”
    The triple parentheses, originally used by anti-Semitic social media users to designate Jews, have been appropriated by Jewish social media users.
    In another tweet, Wikileaks wondered whether the symbol “has been re-re-purposed to now be a tribalist designator for establishment climbers.”
    read more: https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u...-2016/1.733041

  10. #1585
    Junior Member kykeon's Avatar
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    thanks for the very thoughtful posts, Nancy, I enjoyed the arguments, ideas and citations you brought up. (:

    I generally tend to cosign your sentiments that Catalan independence should only (if ever) be achieved through the agreed-upon rules internal to Spain. I am just hesitant to make it all a "subset" of relations with Russia/Putin. My understanding is that the Catalan question is of enough significance to those whom it concerns such that it can't really be attributed to Russian/Putin's instrumentalization of the matter. But I think it's totally correct to point out that Russian interests are nonetheless at stake / in play. ... but now I'm really splitting already split hairs.

    You also enlightened me about Assange's rather unstellar track record concerning a few issues. But as the old saying goes, a broken clock is right twice a day. :S

  11. #1586
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    Yes, but the whole reason I brought up the Catalan issue was not to speak about whether or not it was significant, but the idea that a shitload of Twitter accounts were posting about it when they had no connection to it whatsoever is more oddness that makes you question what on Twitter is actually real or driven by bots/trolls.

    Here's an example. Journalists have tracked some Twitter accounts that, for months, only promoted Trump and were virulently anti-Clinton. As soon as they election ended and Trump won, those same Twitter accounts switched gears and started going after Merkel and Macron. Once the French election ended, they moved on again to this whole issue with the Catalan referendum. Why? Why are some of these supposedly real people so invested in each referendum or election across the globe? And why are they always on the side that promises to be disruptive? They caught some accounts of "Americans" like I mentioned before, with profiles stating they were Trump-loving Christian conservative moms in Florida, and as soon as the election ended they scrubbed all their tweets and started posting things in French that were pro-Le Pen. What happened to the American mom who supposedly owned that account? She never existed.

    Also, on the topic of Assange... the fact that he's had visits from our most pro-Russian politican, Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, and also visits from Nigel Farage, probably says all that needs to be said about him.

  12. #1587
    Alt Universe CliqueMember Spikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    Nope...they're mostly white guys.
    Yeah, but only because there are more white people in the USA than others. This study by the University of Columbia shows that about 65% of the mass shooters are white when counting people of Hispanic descent as white, and as far as I know 73,6% of the USA population is white. If you have other numbers, I'd like to know.

    Mass Shooters-------/------ Races
    White 65,1%----/------White 72,50%
    Black 16,9%----/------Black 12,60%
    Asian 7,2%----/--------Asian 5,10%
    Native 3,6%----/--------Native 1,02%

    One thing is clear though, they ARE almost all male.
    "Replies are a combination of nonsense, unrelated comments and inside jokes"‎

  13. #1588
    Alt Universe CliqueMember Spikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    Yes, but the whole reason I brought up the Catalan issue was not to speak about whether or not it was significant, but the idea that a shitload of Twitter accounts were posting about it when they had no connection to it whatsoever is more oddness that makes you question what on Twitter is actually real or driven by bots/trolls.
    Btw, I really detest how the Catalonian thing is portrayed. Rightist people are saying that leftists want to seperate, leftist people are saying the rightists want to seperate. I guess at its core a lot of people identify with the issue around the globe because it involves independency, perceived freedom, nationality and the right to vote (for anything really).

    Imho there are a few solid reasons for Catalonia to become independent, which are irrelevant to this thread, but some might be interested to read them anyway;

    "Replies are a combination of nonsense, unrelated comments and inside jokes"‎

  14. #1589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy View Post
    It's pretty clear that Russia has wreaked havoc not just in the US but in the UK, and tried to do so in other European countries such as France and Germany. I have no doubt that Russia has contributed to and is gleeful about the unrest in Spain.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ratic-it-seems



    Obviously what the country needs is a real democracy with each person actually having a voice in a legitimate election.
    Why do you have no doubt that Russia was involved in the unrest in Spain? And how did Russia wreak havoc in the UK?

  15. #1590
    Let them eat cheese flan Nancy's Avatar
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    I meant on social media, as has been discussed in the above posts.

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