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Thread: so you want an ak-47: unfs gun control or lack thereof party thread

  1. #1336
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    They've wavered. It's also incredibly stupid given everything we know about the no fly list.

  2. #1337
    fire up the quattro SMMY's Avatar
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    That's wavering? It sounds more like they're trying to buy time to mount opposition to any legislation. Having watched the Frontline documentary on the NRA and Wayne Lapierre last night, I doubt they're actually in favor of even the watered down Cornyn proposal.

  3. #1338
    Remember. Steve SFM's Avatar
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    I've been wrong before, but I think "Don't Fly, Don't Buy" will happen. The other stuff will probably have to wait.
    At my core, I think we're gonna be OK.

    Barack Hussein Obama

  4. #1339
    Get Out The Dark Adam's Avatar
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    I think it will, too. It seems that enough politicians are finally PISSED and will not back down. And the GOP, already fighting to save their party in the face of Trump, know that fighting against this absolutely necessary and sensible bill would just drive the last nail into their coffin.
    The Landslide Never Brought, Brought Me Down

  5. #1340
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    I've talked to a lot of Republicans around town today who agree that you shouldn't be allowed to purchase high capacity magazines, and most didn't realize that congress refused to deny gun purchases for people on the no-fly list. A few shocked me by agreeing that assault weapons shouldn't be in the hands of civilians. This is not a left-right issue. A lot of Republicans think there should be more restrictions in place. Which makes the inaction all the more frustrating.

  6. #1341
    Remember. Steve SFM's Avatar
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    Yeah, all the polls show Rs supporting things like background checks and banning large magazines. Not sure about a ban on assault rifles.
    At my core, I think we're gonna be OK.

    Barack Hussein Obama

  7. #1342
    Get Out The Dark Adam's Avatar
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    Oh the public has agreed on this for a long time. It's the politicians who are sucking the NRA's dick for money that don't agree. When you refuse to even bring a bill to the table? You are no doubt someone's bitch.

    Ryan, I'm glad you had those conversations because I'm sure it gave you some hope ( which we all need). I would go on and educate those people on how republican leaders won't even allow the government to even discuss it. The fact that we can't even study guns to make them safer like we did automobiles? It's beyond shocking.

    I really hope that everything (Bernie, Hillary, Trump, the fights among supporters, the endless chatter, the massacre) has in a very unlikely way led to a wake-up call. I think the difference now opposed to when children were murdered in school ( my god I still can't believe that happened and they did NOTHING!) is the atmosphere that it's happened in. When you think about it, all of these things colliding are changing the landscape. Take one piece of the puzzle out ( even Trump) and I don't think we would be seeing this resolve to finally take action. In short, I think we've all had enough crazy and this was the straw that broke the camel's back. We have been pushed way too far. And honestly, even for me, it puts certain things into sharper focus, like how petty we can get when there isn't a shooting to scare the shit out of us and bring us to our knees with grief. Or the fact that all members of the GOP who have taken NRA money in exchange for letting this and other shootings happen should be called to resign or voted the fuck out of office. They work for US, not the NRA. We need to pay them back for intentionally failing us. There should be consequences.
    The Landslide Never Brought, Brought Me Down

  8. #1343
    I need to post this somewhere but I don't feel like Facebook is the place, so:

    It could have been me.

    Not the victims, although that could easily have been me, as well. I have been to Pulse many times. I was at neighboring gay bar Southern Nights until late on Friday. I was at neighboring gay bar Parliament House on Saturday, lying by the pool. So yes, it could have easily been me on the receiving end of that violence. But it could have been me as the shooter. I grew up in an emotionally-repressed household, a combination of Southern Baptist mother and Catholic father. Sex of any kind was secret and forbidden; a "deviant" sexuality like mine, much less. "Faggots" and "butt buddies" were derided. My sister and I were forbidden from watching Will and Grace. When I was outed to my parents at eighteen (by a younger cousin who I thought I could trust and confide in), the conversation consisted of "damnation" and "we expect grandchildren" and "how dare you, who do you think you are?" When I confronted my parents again at twenty after meeting my first boyfriend, the argument and rhetoric was more vitriolic and hurtful than even before.

    It could have been me. Everything that I was taught, every message that I was sent, was encouraging me to pick up a gun and blow away other gay people, including myself.

    (Let's not forget how my uncles corner me every time we are in a large gathering and talk about how they have a "bullet for every liberal who wants to take their guns away.")

    I'm done.
    "See everything as an illusion, and enjoy it even though you are not of it."
    ~Alanis Morissette, paraphrased

  9. #1344
    Let them eat cheese flan Nancy's Avatar
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    I love you, Mark.

  10. #1345
    Mr. Tricorder Pete!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncanny hats View Post
    They've wavered. It's also incredibly stupid given everything we know about the no fly list.
    Yeah, this seems like a cynical win for a lot of people. Dems look like they've achieved something when all they've done is continue the curtailment of rights of profiled POC, Republicans can crow about brown people not being able buy lethal arms, and the NRA and manufacturer's can milk a spike in paranoid white panic-buying by saying this is only the tip of a gun-control iceberg.

    Yay, politics.

  11. #1346
    Let them eat cheese flan Nancy's Avatar
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    All these asshats on FB using my gay friends' status updates as a public dumping ground for their own issues are making me want to scream. It's not just the gun nuts, it's straight people period. If you're straight and your gay friend wants to spout off about how silent his straight friends have been in the face of this tragedy, shut the fuck up and listen. Don't get defensive and start accusing gays of being divisive.

  12. #1347
    it's a long long climb Kari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Markness View Post
    I need to post this somewhere but I don't feel like Facebook is the place, so:

    It could have been me.

    Not the victims, although that could easily have been me, as well. I have been to Pulse many times. I was at neighboring gay bar Southern Nights until late on Friday. I was at neighboring gay bar Parliament House on Saturday, lying by the pool. So yes, it could have easily been me on the receiving end of that violence. But it could have been me as the shooter. I grew up in an emotionally-repressed household, a combination of Southern Baptist mother and Catholic father. Sex of any kind was secret and forbidden; a "deviant" sexuality like mine, much less. "Faggots" and "butt buddies" were derided. My sister and I were forbidden from watching Will and Grace. When I was outed to my parents at eighteen (by a younger cousin who I thought I could trust and confide in), the conversation consisted of "damnation" and "we expect grandchildren" and "how dare you, who do you think you are?" When I confronted my parents again at twenty after meeting my first boyfriend, the argument and rhetoric was more vitriolic and hurtful than even before.

    It could have been me. Everything that I was taught, every message that I was sent, was encouraging me to pick up a gun and blow away other gay people, including myself.

    (Let's not forget how my uncles corner me every time we are in a large gathering and talk about how they have a "bullet for every liberal who wants to take their guns away.")

    I'm done.


    This is such a thoughtful response, and it is this thoughtfulness that is so sorely needed. We are all capable of violence and being raised a certain way and being programmed is very hard to undo.

  13. #1348
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    Mark and I share very similar backgrounds, and I always think the same thing.

    Here's the deal -- a lot of Tumblr and Twitter gays, mostly young ones, are pissed that the shooter is being painted as a closeted gay now, saying the media is being homophobic by taking on that angle. But you know what? Gays of a certain age or of certain religious upbringings DO suppress their feelings and urges. They internalize things. They hide them from people around them to avoid being shunned or disowned or harassed. Millennials ranting and raving on Facebook grew up in a time when there was a lot more visibility and awareness here, and acceptance (even though we still have a long way to go). So maybe they don't understand what it's like to live a life trapped in your own head. They refuse to acknowledge that there are self-loathing, closeted gays. Sometimes the depression and anxiety get so bad they commit suicide. Sometimes they turn to drugs or alcohol to cope. Or sometimes, when you add that with a special brand of religious nuttery, you get displays like this one.

    I grew up in a conservative redneck town with a population of 612. 612. The booming metropolis five miles south of us is 1500 people. In these two towns, I know at least four closeted redneck boys who say horrible shit about gay people on Facebook and in person, even though I know for a fact they're fucking other guys on the side. But they don't come out because their families are religious and anti-gay, and their friends are homophobic redneck guys, and they know they'll be disowned in a heartbeat. They live double lives and they're the most vocal homophobes in our community. So naturally they fucking despise me. It pisses them off that I can walk around, an openly gay person, and I don't have to pretend to be something I'm not. Rather than being angry at their shit families or friends, they're angry at me for living honestly.

    I've mentioned this before, but I have a cousin who's deeply in the closet. We used to be very close. We grew up like brothers, we hung out multiple times a week as adults, we went on vacations together, we had dinner parties and game nights together. Then one day, despite being fine with my being gay for years, he started to make little homophobic comments to my face. And over the course of time they got worse, and more hurtful. And then one day his brother texted me and said, "You need to see this Craigslist ad." There was the homophobic cousin, dick in hand, posting in the M4M section of the casual encounters page. It turns out he'd been hooking up with lots of men, and it wasn't hard to find that out because the gay community here is relatively small. I confronted him about his homophobia and offered him a chance to talk it out, and he lost his shit. He screamed and yelled at me, telling me I was the one with the problem, that I needed therapy and I was ruining his life because I was trying to twist what was happening, etc. He told my whole family that I'd hacked his computer and his emails to spy on him, he told my grandma I was trying to destroy his life because I was jealous of him, accused one of my friends of raping him, and on and on. Then he packed up and moved to Georgia, came home a year later and married a woman, and then lost his shit again because I didn't come to the wedding to see proof that he was a happy straight man. During this time he also became obsessed with guns (the girl he was dating was actually the daughter of a man who owned a gun range, and that's where he met her). He spent all his spare time at ranges and doing target practice. He's spiraled down into a deranged, angry state. I have repeatedly told my family that I will not attend any holidays or functions if he's present because I honestly believe he'd try to kill me and/or anyone else who's in-the-know. They all shrug it off and tell me I'm being the irrational one, but as we see time and time again, that shit happens every day. Meek, quiet, nerdy kid snaps and becomes a reclusive, cagey gun enthusiast, and before you know it dozens of people are dead.

  14. #1349
    Senior Member Jake's Avatar
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    Thank you Mark and Ryan for sharing your stories. So incredibly important in a time like this to help with understanding the complexities of this, the ones that most won't take the time to understand on their own. Seems like many are moving into the anger state of the grieving process, and some of that anger is being directed at straight friends. The allies who've spoken out, shared stories, expressed their unwavering support - it feels so comforting, more than they could know. However, everything still feels so raw that when I'm reading post after post about more Orlando details and suddenly I see a random selfie or unrelated status from a straight person I haven't seen talk about the tragedy at all... I get really, really annoyed and angry.

  15. #1350
    Butts. soignee's Avatar
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    I read a twitter story about an "old school" lesbian apologizing that "it was never supposed to happen to you," the post Matthew Shepard generation who don't quite understand how deep homophobia can go. Her stance is "I'm sorry," but the tumblr/twitter/youtube lot don't quite seem to grasp how family and culture and community can shove you in a closet. The homophobia that has been stewing and bubbling is still around, it's not going to go away because your mom watches Rupaul's Drag Race with you, or w/e.

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