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Thread: so you want an ak-47: unfs gun control or lack thereof party thread

  1. #1471
    fire up the quattro SMMY's Avatar
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    the police have found over 18 guns, explosives and tons of ammunition in his home. I would say that this isn't your average gun fancier. What would be helpful is some stats on guns in our country, but since the NRA is opposed studies regarding guns, we don't have this data. How can you have effective legislation when we don't even have the faintest clues as to what specifically is the problem and how do we address it? I do think anyone having over a dozen guns, outside of professional collectors or used for work and not just someone who is looking to amp up their manhood, shouldn't have access to that many guns.

    Also ironic that ISIS was trying to claim credit for this. In America, we can do bad all by ourselves.

  2. #1472
    Only knows desire. Perky Compson's Avatar
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    Haha, my best friend since middle school owns upwards of 30 guns. He's also a mining prospector who lives in the middle of nowhere so if he's going to mass shoot anyone it's going to be a bunch of cacti outside his porch, though. (I have not yet had the heart to ask if he voted Trump.)

    Honestly I think part of the problem is that we have multiple problems, and we tend to lump them all together when we talk about "gun violence". We lump suicides, mass shootings, domestic violence, hunting accidents, gang violence, cartel violence and police brutality into the same category of "gun deaths" when the cultural, economic and sociopolitical reasons behind all of them overlap but diverge. And if we don't even have statistics we can't address any of these. Less guns would obviously decrease all of these death statistics, but seem almost like addressing symptoms instead of roots.

    Ironically enough I spent this weekend on a reservation in super rural California doing legal services for members of a Native tribe so individuals could get their firearms rights back and participate in their cultural hunts.

  3. #1473
    Senior Member Andyland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perky Compson View Post
    Honestly I think part of the problem is that we have multiple problems, and we tend to lump them all together when we talk about "gun violence". We lump suicides, mass shootings, domestic violence, hunting accidents, gang violence, cartel violence and police brutality into the same category of "gun deaths" when the cultural, economic and sociopolitical reasons behind all of them overlap but diverge. And if we don't even have statistics we can't address any of these. Less guns would obviously decrease all of these death statistics, but seem almost like addressing symptoms instead of roots.
    The common denominator is guns. I'm totally okay with addressing symptoms if the symptoms are deaths from gun violence.

  4. #1474
    Only knows desire. Perky Compson's Avatar
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    It's just not going to get you any sort of traction with people who would literally rather die or go to prison than give up their guns. I mean, I think organized religion is dumb as fuck, but yelling until I'm blue in the face that people should just stop caring so much about God is going to do fuck all to stop killing in the name of.

  5. #1475
    Only knows desire. Perky Compson's Avatar
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    I'm checking out of this thread because I'm having too much trouble responding to comments without emotionally responding as if they're the same as the ones on Facebooksaying the victims deserved to die for being country music fans. I thought I had it together but I don't. I know you're not saying that but my feelings are all screwed up.

    Much love homies.

  6. #1476
    fire up the quattro SMMY's Avatar
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    Kari - This echoes my feelings on the onus being on liberals to have to try to reach out to Trump supporters. At some point you have to proceed without them, because they're lost to us because of the GOP/Fox/Breitbart/and other conservative media, that now forms their view of U.S politics and culture. How can you have conversations with people when they don't even believe in provable facts and scream "fake news" if the source isn't one of their ultra right wing info. sources. How can you possibly have a conversation with someone who thinks Info Wars is a reliable news source. It's on us to be active politically and elect people who aren't batshit crazy*, so that there can be reasonable politicians and policies enacted to address such things as gun control.




    *Moore of Alabama

  7. #1477
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    It's very hard to have any meaningful conversation when, as Perky points out, people are willing to die for their right to keep their guns. I was scanning the radio tonight on my drive home and came across Sean Hannity's syndicated radio show, and his callers were already veering into conspiracy territory about this being a set up. When a shooter doesn't fit their narrative of being either Muslim or a hard leftist, they would rather make up wild conspiracies than face actual facts. They can't admit that guns are the root of the issue, so they have to make up something else to explain it away. It's the same with Sandy Hook truthers. People don't want to believe someone can mow down a classroom full of kids, so it's easier to tell yourself it was all a false flag with crisis actors.

    But we knew already that you can't have serious debates and conversations because these mass shootings have been happening for years now. Both sides throw mud at each other, play the blame game, and then we move on. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    I feel like SMMY... I'm just over it. I'm past being numb to it. Obviously it's horrific but I know nothing will change it. Any hint at changing laws or introducing legislation will be met with ferocious outcry, threats, and harassment. This country is in decline. It has been for a while. It's just that we seem to have pressed fast-forward with our current administration.

    Can I just mention that there is a very specific strand that runs through people who are fervently pro-gun? And when I say fervently pro-gun, there is a difference between having a couple hunting rifles or handguns, and having an entire arsenal. At last count, this guy had over 40 weapons and thousands of rounds of ammunition. I know people like him. I have them in my family. They all hate the government, belong to questionable organizations and groups (one is an Asatru nut, one attended a seminar in Atlanta about the "white minority," etc.), and have a fear bordering on paranoia that "others" are going to come after what's theirs. In a lot of instances they belong to law enforcement or the military, or had aspirations to work in those fields but were not accepted. I would not be surprised to learn this Las Vegas shooter had some deep hatred or mistrust of the government, which btw could be a fringe left or fringe right thing.

    My grandpa and my dad have always had guns. My dad probably hasn't taken his out of his closet in 20 years. My grandpa uses them for hunting and for protection from wildlife when he's out working (we live in a very remote, wooded area full of bears, coyotes, rattlesnakes, etc.). Those types are not the problem. The people who worship guns like a religion are the problem. And there's lots of them. What went so wrong in their lives that they so desperately need them to feel safe, or powerful, or alive?

  8. #1478
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    Also, I love Jimmy Kimmel for speaking out on health care and I love him for this.


  9. #1479
    A friend shared this today, it bears repeating:


  10. #1480
    Let them eat cheese flan Nancy's Avatar
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    What We're Really Saying When We Say, "Don't Politicize Tragedy"

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...=.4267f42e3b02

    By Monica Hesse October 2 at 4:37 PM
    The Las Vegas Strip is bloody and we are back to where we are always back to in America, sending thoughts and prayers, assuring each other that we are not trying to politicize the tragedy, assuring each other that everyone else is.

    “We must put politics aside, stand up to the NRA,” Hillary Clinton wrote on Twitter.

    “Don’t politicize this, you heartless hack,” responded Fox Business host Kennedy.

    Don’t politicize this. What does it mean? Let us be careful with our language, at least, in this time when there is nothing else we can control. Does it mean, don’t call for an assault weapons ban? Don’t bother to figure out who the shooter was or what demented worldview he subscribed to? Don’t try to talk about why there are dead people, while those people’s bodies are still waiting to be claimed by relatives who thought their loved ones were attending a music festival but instead ended up in a massacre?

    When else are we supposed to talk about it? By the time these funerals are done, there may well be more funerals resulting from more mass shootings. By the time those mass shootings happen, we might not even hear about them. It used to be news when eight, nine, a dozen Americans were shot as they were shopping in a grocery store, going to school, going to work, seeing a Batman movie in a theater in Aurora, Colo.

    The mass shooting body count is so high now, so breathtakingly high, with exponential increases from Aurora to Newtown to Orlando to Vegas. A dozen, 13, 15 dead barely registers as news now. It’s part of the American experience: We deal with mosquitoes in August, airport delays around Thanksgiving, expensive health care and the potential of being shot, at any time, by a semiautomatic weapon as we try to go about the most boring, precious, asinine aspects of our daily lives.

    What “Don’t politicize this” often means is, Don’t politicize this if the shooter belongs to me.

    As personal details about the gunman begin to come out — old voting records, Facebook rants — “Don’t politicize this” is the placeholder statement we use while figuring out exactly which political knives need to be sharpened.

    If the shooter had a Confederate-flag bumper sticker on the back of his car and I do, too, then I will argue that this isn’t the time to make his act of carnage political. I will say it is time to pray and reflect.

    If the shooter was a left-wing universal-health-care fan, and I am too, then I will maintain that this is the time to leave politics out of his gory spree. Instead let us focus on extending concern for the victims.

    If the shooter subscribes to the same political ideology I do, then I pivot to using words such as “lone wolf.” I talk about how he was disturbed; I cite endless depressing statistics about mental health care in America.

    If the shooter belongs to the other side, then suddenly it is finally time to talk about the systemic issues that caused the shooting. It’s a “them” problem. It’s an other-side problem. Suddenly it’s time to politicize.

    This summer, when the shooter who wounded a Republican congressman at a Virginia baseball practice turned out to be a Bernie Sanders supporter, Donald Trump Jr. promptly retweeted a snide comment about “NY elites” being to blame for the tragedy.

    Monday, when a group of Internet trolls landed on the wrong identity for the Las Vegas shooter, right-wing website Gateway Pundit posted the headline “Las Vegas Shooter Reportedly a Democrat Who Liked Rachel Maddow, MoveOn.org and Associated with Anti-Trump Army.”

    This wasn’t true. The trolls didn’t even have the right name. But man, were they happy when it looked like Rachel Maddow might be to blame.

    Details about the real shooter, Stephen Paddock, came out slowly throughout Monday morning. He was a retiree who liked gambling and country music and going to concerts. He might have lived in two towns named Mesquite, one in Texas and one in Nevada.

    We waited, because knowing who he was would cue Americans how to respond.

  11. #1481
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    ^^^ That. I was on another forum talking about how whacked our gun culture was and possible ways to correct it when someone chimed in about politicizing things and how we should be doing something constructive instead. Fuck you! Sorry, but trying to discuss actual ways for this to end IS constructive. What's not constructive is people literally throwing their hands up and saying "We can't do anything about this". Mother fucker, yes you can. You just choose not to cause you're a selfish man child who picks and chooses when it's OK to fuck the Constitution.
    I'm A-OK with a complete ban on guns in the US. As it stands today, about half of all gun makers are in the US. Out of almost 200 countries in the world, our great nation houses half of all gun manufacturers.
    Can't handle no guns...OK, no guns that can fire more than 6 rounds. You want to hunt, cool. You get a bolt action rifle. Home protection? You get a 6 shot revolver or a 6 round pump shotgun. There should be no reason you NEED to fire off 30 rounds in less than 30 seconds.
    The lengths these gun nuts will go to justify their petty selfishness is mind blowing.

  12. #1482
    worth a million in prizes .chris's Avatar
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    Two strangers bond over country music and beer. Then the gunshots started.

    This article has me holding back tears at work.

  13. #1483
    Butts. soignee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .chris View Post
    nope, I'm crying

  14. #1484
    generally largely right Dan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    I do recognize that is a cultural difference
    Cultural difference? Yes, the difference between sane people and murderous trash. Unless you live in the remote fucking wilderness and you need to protect yourself from, like, large animals, there is no need for a civilian to possess a firearm. It is wrong whether it's a revolver or a machine gun. No grey areas. The second amendment needs to be repealed. All guns need to be confiscated. Those who won't give them up need to be dealt with by whichever means possible. Yes, including force, drones, whatever. I don't care. This entitlement when it comes to things that are designed specifically to kill and at best maim needs to be wiped out of the collective psyche. If you like and collect guns, you're a fucking cunt. You are fucked up in the head.

  15. #1485
    Alt Universe CliqueMember Spikey's Avatar
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    Can't even deal with it right now, it is reminiscent of the Bataclan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    If you like and collect guns, you're a fucking cunt. You are fucked up in the head.
    Well, as much as I personally detest the idea of civilians owning guns, I honestly have no problem with people collecting, or owning weapons for sports. In the psychological sense collecting guns is not morally better or worse than say, collecting swords, stamps or anything really. I know this is allowed over here; you can get an exemption or temporary permittance in certain cases. If interested, here are the details of it under Dutch law;
    "Replies are a combination of nonsense, unrelated comments and inside jokes"‎

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