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Thread: Racism

  1. #541
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    I don't know enough or care enough about tennis to know much about the situation that happened over the weekend. However, it doesn't take an extensive knowledge of tennis to not be like wtf about this:



    I mean, even if you're making a legit point about her behavior, that is some "oh lawdy miss scarlett" imagery. And why is the other woman white?

  2. #542
    Senior Member Jezebelle's Avatar
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    Yah pretty much everyone agrees that her behavior was similar to how other players have reacted. And that's ... yeah... pretty racist. The other woman was Asian. This artist saw this from one angle only.
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  3. #543
    strike every chord that you feel Owen's Avatar
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    Wow that cartoon is disgusting. The racism and sexism on display over this makes me see red. I see plenty of male players acting much worse and... crickets.

  4. #544
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    I love Elizabeth Warren and I think she'd be a fine president. But it's really sad that I don't want her to run because if I have to see shit like this for two years on top of the other stuff going on, I don't know if I could take it.


  5. #545
    strike every chord that you feel Owen's Avatar
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    Is that real? UGH. *voms*

    It's yet another example of how they hold Democrats to impossibly ridiculous standards while allowing their own to actually rape people. And I'd love to see someone smack the smugness right off their faces.

  6. #546
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    Jesus christ


  7. #547
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    It's always refreshing when I post in this thread and I don't want to stab someone


  8. #548
    And in the evening it's. . . Andrea's Avatar
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    That's brilliant.

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  10. #550
    Alt Universe CliqueMember Spikey's Avatar
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    That article (full of factual errors about the Netherlands) makes it sound like the Netherlands is almost in a civil war, which I assure is not the case. The incident it refers to is taken very seriously and debated in the house of representatives, as the right to "have a meeting" and "demonstrate" are obviously very important to us. Most people aren't pro- or anti black Pete, just neutral. At pro- or anti- demonstrations there are typically twice as many journalists than there are demonstrants.

    Always interesting to see the international press suggesting that black Pete has a direct link to the shameful USA/UK racist traditions of blackfacing, while in fact it has a different root entirely - the NL doesn't have a history with blackfacing. With blackfacing in mind, I can see why the tradition in the USA has black Pete changed to an Elf. Throughout Europe however, Saint Nicholas is accompanied by a companion in black, whether it be a monk in a black habit with torture devices, a black-haired devil with a birch or a black-bearded human-like person, all also sometimes depicted with pitchblack skin (but obiviously still caucasian - Pere Fouettard, Krampus and Knecht Ruprecht respectively, representing Belgian, German, French, Swiss and Austrian traditions of the festivity) - the orginal symbol here is the devil turned good, "black Peter" literally means "the devil" in medieval Dutch and like Krampus he used to carry a birch and a sack. The history of how the Dutch version shifted towards a figure with racially sensitive Moorish features is entirely unclear and lost to us - nonetheless black Pete as the companion of Saint Nicholas is represented as a positive figure, a friendly nobleman who hands out presents and candy. The Catholic tradition is so strong that it bizarrely survived protestantism and was even carried across the Antlantic to the Antilles, where people do the reverse and paint their face white to represent Saint Nicholas. Anyway. It is now almost impossible to determine exactly what is racist about black Pete and what is not, I hope the figure is changing soon, there have been a lot of creative approaches so far that get zero attention, because positive news doesn't sell that well.
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  11. #551
    the druthers Mordecai's Avatar
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    Oh wow this is still going

  12. #552
    Senior Member Jezebelle's Avatar
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    ..... but the Dutch were pretty involved in the slave trade so...

    I was in Amsterdam a few years back when the parade and Zwarte Piet made their entrance. It might have been the fresh weed at breakfast or the transatlantic flight, but it shocked all of our American asses because it is so blatantly black face. I felt ashamed being a witness to it.
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  13. #553
    Alt Universe CliqueMember Spikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jezebelle View Post
    ..... but the Dutch were pretty involved in the slave trade so...
    ...5% of the slave trade to be exact - the dutch did horrid things all over the world, especially in the Caribbean and Indonesia. However, no historical relation between slavery or slave trade and Zwarte Piet was ever established. Keep in mind that post medieval slavery in the low countries themselves was never a legal thing, which is exactly the free culture that created the Santa Claus myth. Strange as it sounds, anyone that got into the Netherlands (as a slave from another country for example) could in theory go to a court and claim their freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jezebelle View Post
    I was in Amsterdam a few years back when the parade and Zwarte Piet made their entrance. It might have been the fresh weed at breakfast or the transatlantic flight, but it shocked all of our American asses because it is so blatantly black face. I felt ashamed being a witness to it.
    The purpose is not to make fun of people of colour, so it is not "blatantly" blackface - a tradition which sole purpose is to make fun of people by being racist. Zwarte Piet is best thought of as a positive mythological figure, like the toothfairy.

    If you come from a country where blackfacing was ever a thing, you probably *should* be shocked if you see anything that physically resembles it. That in itself doesnt mean it is the same thing though.
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