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Thread: The "Woody Allen is Probably Disgusting" Thread

  1. #61
    aging hipster trash The Seaward's Avatar
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    The unraveling of childhood events as an adult is a fucking trip. When you've gone your entire life believing something to be true, then it...isn't? Ugh.

    Isn't it bonkers how parents can be? Like, I wonder if I ever had children, if I would be any better. I would certainly hope so!
    I don't understand the question, and I won't respond to it.

  2. #62
    Remember. Steve SFM's Avatar
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    Wow. Sorry you went through that.

    I saw a woman on CNN today, presumably an expert on memory, talking about how malleable memory really is. She said that not only could Dylan have been "brainwashed" (she obviously disliked that term), she could have developed the memory on her own. Conversely, I suppose, Woody could have molested her and now truly believes he didn't. All of this stuff -- memory, biography, ideology -- is so mixed up, and the human mind is so ambiguous and fragile.

    I just have to say, once again, that I'm grateful that I have somewhere to examine complexities. At HP, for the most part, it's OMG WOODY IS SCUM BELIEVE DYLAN 100% OR YOU'RE AN APOLOGIST OR A PERVERT vs. ALL BELIEFS MUST BE BASED ON HARD EVIDENCE FEMINAZI PITCHFORK MOB POOR WOODY HE'S A GREAT ARTIST SO SHUT UP. As always, we're the best place on the whole wide Internets.
    At my core, I think we're gonna be OK.

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  3. #63
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    Makes you wonder what's worse, a parent molesting you or a parent brainwashing and manipulating you into thinking you were molested? Both are psychologically devastating.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by The Seaward View Post
    The unraveling of childhood events as an adult is a fucking trip. When you've gone your entire life believing something to be true, then it...isn't? Ugh.

    Isn't it bonkers how parents can be? Like, I wonder if I ever had children, if I would be any better. I would certainly hope so!
    Man, darwood, I am so sorry to hear that happened. When I was a teenager and was sent to therapy because of depression, I had a therapist do the same thing to me. I came out to my therapist and told her that I was gay and felt ashamed and suicidal. The first thing she did was insinuate my father had molested me. When I denied it, she tried for several sessions to get me to "remember". I told my mom and she quit taking me to her. I'll never forget that lady. She also worked with children that were in custody of CPS and often wonder if that was her MO.

  5. #65
    Join The Resistance Barbarella's Avatar
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    Can someone explain to me why in the world you would let a man who is in therapy for "inappropriate behaviors" towards your child be allowed anywhere near your home, let alone said child? (it's all in that article from 1992)

    Not trying to blame Mia for what did or didn't happen, it just does not compute.
    Last edited by Barbarella; 02-04-2014 at 05:51 PM.

  6. #66
    she said destroy Lágnætti's Avatar
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    You know, I've always been a fan of Allen's early films, but I also think he's a nasty, scabby little narcissist with a dubious moral compass at very best. Any 50-something man who pursues a teenager 35 years his junior is .. well, imagine it's not 'famous cool director whose movies I like' and just some generic old slob secretly visiting your special needs sister/daughter for sex for a minute and what you'd think about him. I'd imagine the words 'dirty old man' would be the nicest you'd manage. Now factor in said teenager being the daughter of the woman said slob is currently in a relationship with and really, anyone who can't see Allen for the dysfunctional, unpleasant little weirdo he is can suck it, frankly. His rationalizations (well, she wasn't MY daughter) and his inability to recognize the impact that fucking his long-term girlfriend's teenage daughter would have on her family (but wait, it's all right, cos they weren't HIS kids) are truly those of a special piece of work. The interview he gave about the situation back in the day was chilling in his utter disregard for the family of Soon-Yi and also in his ability to deduce right from wrong IMHO. He denies, he rationalizes and he minimizes in the tradition of any good abuser, actually.

    I think Farrow has a screw loose too, but at least she's not sitting there craftily sexing up the teenage sons of her current boyfriend's family and wondering why everyone's calling foul. If her brother is a pedophile, it's more a sign to me that she's from precisely the kind of fucked-up background that would lead her into relationships with similar men. Conjecture, but the pattern is all to apparent in everyday life so ...

    I certainly believe the daughter believes the abuse happened and I also believe that family-centred sexual abuse is more common than many people think (and is the most common form of sexual abuse) and that it's certainly more common for those in positions of power and with money to get away with it for years after the fact or forever, especially if they have a entire industry willing to back them, protect them or basically ignore their proclivities for personal career gain - see the Jimmy Saville case, for a refresher on that one or indeed any of the endless male entertainers who spent 30 or 40 years merrily and often quite openly child-molesting their way around the UK without censure only to finally be brought to charge in their dotage.

    Finally, that Barbara Walters character should be taken out behind the studio and shot. What a twat.
    Last edited by Lágnætti; 02-04-2014 at 06:04 PM.

  7. #67
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    I've word vomited enough of my personal shit over in TMP the last few weeks, so I'll try to keep this a little less confessional, but for a different perspective: some shit happened in my family when I was younger. There was much denial on my part (denial is my go-to coping mechanism), especially given my age. When I was an adult and able to understand things better, I did say "Yeah, it did happen" and it triggered other people to say "me too." It causes a major shitstorm. There was much "Why is this being brought up now after all these years?" craziness. But for me, it was I couldn't handle it when I was a kid, and it wasn't until I was more mature was I comfortable enough to talk about it. That's why I tend to believe the accusations. It's not that different from my own experience in telling.

    There were no awards at stake (which is a RIDICULOUS argument, as Woody's been up for many awards since this all came out decades out).

  8. #68
    she said destroy Lágnætti's Avatar
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    I have no idea why people are so dumb about this sort of stuff coming to light years after the fact (although in this case it was brought to light at the time). Children don't have a lot of agency. It's no surprise they can't always find a way to speak up or even have the vocabulary or knowledge to express what's happening clearly, find an adult who'll protect them or somebody to believe them. They also don't know their legal rights or the legal system or even that what is going on is not the norm. They rely on others to inform and protect them - often the same people who perpetrate the abuse. Not to mention the way molesters groom their victims NOT to speak out under any circumstances. I honestly believe at this point in time you have to be bone-stupid not to get this.

  9. #69
    Make it Pink Medusa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbarella View Post
    Can someone explain to me why in the world you would let a man who is in therapy for "inappropriate behaviors" towards your child be allowed anywhere near your home, let alone said child? (it's all in that article from 1992)

    Not trying to blame Mia for what did or didn't happen, it just does not compute.
    A lot of her behavior, then and now, indicates that she isn't all there herself. I don't think it negates anything, but it doesn't hurt to say that she's screwed up herself.

    With the McMartin case that people are falling over themselves to remind me of on facebook: are any of the children involved continuing to assert that the abuse did indeed happen? What a couple of people have mentioned re: false memories is that they often do recognize later on as adults that there's something off or that it wasn't really there. But yes, if we're going to say that someone has false memories of an event I think it's only fair to say that it could well be that Woody himself has "false memories."

  10. #70
    I'm a creep I'm a weirdo
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    Quote Originally Posted by julius ebola View Post
    Finally, that Barbara Walters character should be taken out behind the studio and shot. What a twat.
    I'm glad you're back, too.

  11. #71
    Let them eat cheese flan Nancy's Avatar
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    Helen! We needed your input on this. Thanks for coming back.

  12. #72
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    I think we definitely have to be careful about the "false memories" thing. There's no doubt that it's possible, but as others have pointed out, it's also really hard to talk about these sorts of things when you're younger, and people's voices are often erased. In my own case that I brought up, a couple years after it happened, I tried to talk about it, and was told I was lying, and, so, I left it alone. And then very recently brought it up, casually, and the family freaked out again. The only person who said I wasn't lying, was the person I accused. He said he doesn't remember, and I believe him. He was incredibly high and drunk at the time, and had been diagnosed with multiple personality disorder. 20 years later, he's actually a relatively upstanding person, was good to my siblings (as far as abuse is concerned), but back then...

    So, look, if we are going to buy into the brainwashing and false memories thing, couldn't we also say Woody is blocking out a bad side of him? Either way, the bottom-line is that Dylan went into detail about what happened (whether it's her interpretation or not), and Allen appears to be not getting involved and only letting his lawyer speak. The Soon-Yi scandal, is a separate issue, and I don't know if we can conflate dating someone 30 years your junior with pedophilia. My grandmother married someone 30 years her junior, and it was obvious that it was an ego issue, but she also wasn't abusive, but a survivor of abuse herself.

    Also: sorry that that the both of you went through those things, Scarlet and Seaward. If there is one common denominator in all this, it's that children are regularly abused, and few people anywhere (in anyone) know what to do about it or stop it. Even here, if Mia brainwashed Dylan, or Woody did what Dylan's claimed, the clear thing is that Dylan was abused by someone.

  13. #73
    Make it Pink Medusa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncanny hats View Post
    I think we definitely have to be careful about the "false memories" thing. There's no doubt that it's possible, but as others have pointed out, it's also really hard to talk about these sorts of things when you're younger, and people's voices are often erased.
    It's definitely possible and yes, it happens to some extent (though I'm still curious re: McMartin) but I think I have a strong reaction to those who want to assert that it's possibly not real because so many of the defenses for Allen right now are coming from unabashed fans; it's frustrating to have a conversation with someone about this and you realize quickly that this isn't really about Dylan Farrow or what might or might not have happened to her, it's about bashing someone's idol and that's not allowed. Many artists and writers whose work I've enjoyed were complex and even flat-out bad people. Acknowledging what they did and saying that you want them held accountable in some form doesn't mean you want their work burned in the town square or anything.

  14. #74
    I have only been reading along and haven't chimed in yet, but I just want to thank all of you for the perspectives, research, etc. I had NO clue what to think about this after reading Dylan's letter and the dailybeast article back to back. I'm still not sure what to think, exactly, but I think the conversation you guys are having has gotten at the core of the problems here more effectively and efficiently than any think piece I've seen.
    "See everything as an illusion, and enjoy it even though you are not of it."
    ~Alanis Morissette, paraphrased

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    But I also think Mia Farrow is a narcissist...
    Why do you think she's a narcissist?

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