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Thread: Feminism

  1. #1336
    I am not a loony beanstew's Avatar
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    Maybe for once, someone will call me "Sir" without adding, "You're making a scene."

  2. #1337
    werewolves, not swear-wolves Chalk's Avatar
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    ^^

  3. #1338
    she might not be so bold fullofwish's Avatar
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    Honestly, it's incredible the lengths some dudes will go to to protect anything superhero/comic related as "men only". I don't recall men getting this amped up about women only screenings of Magic Mike or other movies which have received the same treatment. This is not an unusual kind of promo. They're just so fucking possessive about this comic stuff, it's unbelievable.

  4. #1339
    Let them eat cheese flan Nancy's Avatar
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    I have a niece who bitterly disappointed me when she got upset that Marvel decided to turn Thor into a woman. She didn't get the least bit upset when he was a frog. She thinks she's a rebel but she just goes along with the testosterone set no matter what.

  5. #1340
    Alt Universe CliqueMember Spikey's Avatar
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    Not a DC fan myself, but a women-only screening for Wonder Woman sounds like a great idea. Very fitting! Must say that I'm generally disappointed with how powerful female comic heroes are translated to - or absent from - the screen, in particular Disney's portrayal of Marvel comics. . In Avengers Black Widow plays "teh woman", Wasp is completely absent and the Scarlet Witch character could not really be salvaged after destroying her essence in the first film. Fortunately 20th century fox still holds the rights to X-men, and they are doing a way better job in that regard, I think; even though Storm and Rogue were kind of watered down versions of what they probably should be.
    "Replies are a combination of nonsense, unrelated comments and inside jokes"‎

  6. #1341
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    I don't know if this was a subtweet or something, but I can hear the "Actually" in this hypothetical man's voice.

  7. #1342
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    I wasn't sure where Women's March stuff should go, so I'm putting it here for now.

    While I thought the original march and the follow-up were fantastic ideas, I wasn't crazy about the leadership but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I also considered it could just be me. And I'd hate to hate a movement because the leaders weren't doing something exactly right when I couldn't articulate what my problem was.

    Well, now I can at least articulate it.

    Last week, current Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan—a well-known anti-Semite—gave a speech where he said “the powerful Jews are my enemy” and that he had “pulled the cover off of that Satanic Jew and I'm here to say your time is up, your world is through.” Other previous Farrakhan highlights include saying the Jews were behind 9/11 and calling Adolf Hitler a “very great man.”

    That alone is a story. But it doesn’t end there.

    Soon after the speech, news broke that Women’s March leader Tamika Mallory was in attendance; she even received a shout out from Farrakhan during his address and posted about the event on social media. Meanwhile, Women’s March leader Linda Sarsour has collaborated with the Nation of Islam in the past, and Carmen Perez defended Farrakhan in the past, telling Amelia Harnish in January that there are “no perfect leaders” and that people need to understand Farrakhan’s contributions to Black and Brown circles.
    I'm seeing very little about this online. Even searching for stories, I found it only on this blog and then a bunch of right-wing sites. It's like the left is ignoring it except for twitter sniping.

    Like... you can't be crowing about intersectionality and then be supportive of someone as vile as Farrakhan. And even if you can compartmentalize him as good for the black community somehow, at least acknowledge how gross he is for the jewish community. Why don't they matter? It's not zero sum. How about we support people who support both blacks and jews? Is that really that hard to do? And barring full out support, how about finding people who don't call for their annihilation? There's problematic and there's fucking terrible and Farrakhan isn't a little problematic. He's hatred embodied. And I can get that it's complicated with regards to Israel, but that doesn't mean random Jewish person in the US is in sync with Israeli policies. It's a false equivalency Farrakhan wouldn't stand for the same bullshit being spewed about his community. Ugh.

    Even just "I wish he didn't feel X about Y, and I don't condone it, but I feel it's important to work with him on ABC." But it's like "Fuck you, he's good for us," and then it makes it "us" and "them". Who is "us"? The people Farrakhan (no great feminist) supports? I don't like when women are held accountable for the things men say more than the men themselves, but it seems like these ladies don't care at all.

    eta: as soon as I said I didn't find much, I found another article from the Daily Beast

    Last Sunday, February 25, Tamika Mallory — the March’s co-president — attended the Nation of Islam’s annual Saviours' Day event, where Farrakhan proclaimed that “the powerful Jews are my enemy,” and that “the Jews were responsible for all of this filth and degenerate behavior that Hollywood is putting out turning men into women and women into men.”

    In that same speech, Farrakhan commended the Women’s March and personally acknowledged Mallory (who’d previously shared a photo of herself with Farrakahn on Instagram with the caption “Thank god this man is alive and doing well. He is definitely GOAT”).

    While the speech, and Mallory’s presence there, were immediately criticized, the group remained formally silent for over a week, reviving questions about who is, and is not, welcome with the intersectional movement.
    So clearly transphobia is ok too. Lovely leaders. I had read their bullshit "we're inclusive" statement so that's why I did some digging as to WHY they had put it out. Their statement did not disavow anyone or anything in particular, which it really needed to do.

    When I and others voiced concerns about this, Women’s March co-chair Linda Sarsour — who’d herself appeared at a Nation of Islam event in 2015 — told feminists to check their Zionism at the door.

    Sarsour has said that “Nothing is creepier than Zionism,” and apparently that includes anti-Semitism, which she has previously discounted: “I want to make the distinction that while anti-Semitism is something that impacts Jewish Americans, it’s different than anti-black racism or Islamophobia because it’s not systemic.”
    No, not systematic. The Jewish people rounded up in Europe in the 30s and 40s were just doing it for fun and all on their own. I'm not saying one group has it easier or harder than the other, but erasure of one group is disgusting.

  8. #1343
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    [EXCLUSIVE] Tamika Mallory Speaks: ‘Wherever My People Are Is Where I Must Be’
    The activist responds to criticism following her attendance at the Nation of Islam's annual Saviour's Day event.


    That headline? That's a fair point. You can attend things and not agree with everything everyone there does. We're mostly Tori fans but like... we're not on the pro side of nursing piglets.

    But her statement undermined that point with her non-apology

    I proudly serve as a leader for one of the largest women’s advocacy organizations in the world. For that reason, my recent presence at the Nation of Islam’s Saviour’s Day convocation troubled some of the very people who I have fought for and worked alongside for most of my life.

    I have heard the pain and concerns of my LGBTQAI siblings, my Jewish friends and Black women (including those who do and those who don’t check off either of those other boxes.) I affirm the validity of those feelings, and as I continue to grow and learn as both an activist and as a woman, I will continue to grapple with the complicated nature of working across ideological lines and the question of how to do so without causing harm to vulnerable people.
    "I affirm the validity of those feelings" is fancy for "I'm sorry you feel that way." It's not really an apology or an acknowledgment you fucked up. "Mr Farrakhan does not speak for me on all issues, especially this" is the way you want to go.... if, in fact, you disagree with him. If you agree with him and just want to shut people up, you say bullshit like "validity of those feelings." She went on about how she's been going for years and she didn't think it would be a big deal. Well, things change. People didn't know and now they do. You aren't speaking for "all women" if you're participating in something that is vicious and hateful (not just un-PC) to a large chunk of women.

    She says

    Where my people are is where I must also be. I go into difficult spaces. I attend meetings with police and legislators—the very folks so much of my protest has been directed towards. I’ve partnered and sat with countless groups, activists, religious leaders and institutions over the past 20 years. I’ve worked in prisons as well as with present and former gang members.
    A completely fair and valid point. Association does not imply endorsement, unless you don't denounce what was said.

    And then she goes on

    It is impossible for me to agree with every statement or share every viewpoint of the many people who I have worked with or will work with in the future. As I do not wish to be held responsible for the words of others when my own history shows that I stand in opposition to them, I also do not think it is fair to question anyone who works with me, who supports my work and who is a member of this movement because of the ways that I may have fallen short here or in any other instance.
    Um, wtf? Your own history shows you stand in opposition, but you literally can't say it in this statement? "Farrakhan's words against gays, trans, and Jewish people are wrong." It's not fair to question anyone who works with her? "Oh, the internet people are being meanies because I won't condemn an anti-Semite/homo/transphobe"? You did fall short here and it makes everything you may have done suspect. Just say "He's shitty on a lot of things"... but she can't. And why can't she? Because, I believe, she agrees. I could be wrong, but her vagueness that CONTINUES is not sitting well with me. It feels like "Sorry I was caught" not "Sorry I did it."

  9. #1344
    Mr. Universe Pete!'s Avatar
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    ^Either she agrees, or she doesn't want to alienate Farrakhan and people who may agree with him because they're politically useful. Which is still shitty, obviously. Seems to me when you start bracketing people by how useful they are to you, then you pretty quickly stop seeing people as people.

  10. #1345
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete! View Post
    ^Either she agrees, or she doesn't want to alienate Farrakhan and people who may agree with him because they're politically useful. Which is still shitty, obviously. Seems to me when you start bracketing people by how useful they are to you, then you pretty quickly stop seeing people as people.
    Ah, the “good people on both sides” defense. That is always the mark of excellence and intellectual honesty.

  11. #1346
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    The Atlantic had a piece on the Farrakhan kerfuffle today too. It's very nuanced and does a good job of explaining why someone might not knee jerk denounce Farrakhan while still explicitly calling him out as wrong and those who don't as cowardly.

    Therein lies the key conflict for Mallory, and her colleagues at the Women’s March going forward. The Nation of Islam may be essential to anti-violence work in poor black neighborhoods. It may be an invaluable source of help for formerly incarcerated black people whose country has written them off as irredeemable. It may offer a path to vent anger at a system that continues to brutalize, plunder, and incarcerate human beings because they are black. And it may also be impossible to continue working with the Nation, and at the same time, lead a diverse, national, progressive coalition that includes many of the people Farrakhan and the Nation point to as the source of all evil in the world.

    I asked Mallory if she intended to keep working with the Nation. “The brothers and sisters that I work with in the Nation of Islam are people too,” she said. “They are a part of the work that I’ve been doing for a long time and they are very much so ingrained in my anti-violent work of saving the lives of young black men and women.”

    “So that’s the answer to that.”

    From the perspective of her critics, Mallory’s refusal to denounce Farrakhan or the Nation appears as a condemnable silence in the face of bigotry. For her supporters, Mallory’s refusal to condemn the Nation shows an admirable loyalty towards people who guided her through an unfathomable loss.

    But watching Farrakhan bask in the media attention, as yet another generation of black leadership faces public immolation on his behalf, it is impossible to see him as worthy of her loyalty.

  12. #1347
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Here's really interesting comparison of individualist vs. social feminism and how it relates to the #metoo movement

  13. #1348
    a succulent Chinese meal lacuna's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting that article. Always nice to see someone put into words what I can never seem to articulate.

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