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Thread: The Alt-Right Thread

  1. #16
    Senior Member Jezebelle's Avatar
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    If you want to dive into the depths of racism, take a gander at the message boards at stormfront.org. I have this sadomasochism thing where I go there every now and then to read their threads. Its alarming to read such hatred of other races/cultures. I found particular fascination when the Pulse massacre happened - like, how would they feel? Dozens of homosexuals are murdered - would they rejoice for that? But it was an American with radical muslim ties - so do they hate that guy?

    I mean

    Right?

    But generally they really hate Jews, think diversity and multi culturalism will destroy us all, and have an overwhelmingly negative opinion of the intelligence of African Americans. Its alarming to read such openly shared feelings of racism not even the least bit veiled.
    chillin in kyoto grand with my man Skrill

  2. #17
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    NPI is meeting this week, which is a well oiled machine. The main speaker? Tila Tequila. Talk about weird.
    Last edited by uncanny hats; 11-15-2016 at 06:52 PM.

  3. #18
    Senior Member JAE's Avatar
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    I was in Florida last week during the election - I had deja vu from my experience of Brexit of starting off the evening slightly nervous but overall hopeful and then gradually despair set in.

    I was there visiting the theme parks with a few friends, one of whom I've known for 25 years since we started school - he's one of my closest friends. I've always known him as a completely decent person with hugely liberal leanings - we have basically always agreed on everything from politics to our treatment of other people. During the Brexit vote he came out on the Leave side, which I found surprising at the time but there are a lot of complicated reasons particular to Northern Ireland why people here voted the way they did and I never got into it with him. For a while he has been talking about Trump and he arrived on the holiday with a 'Make America Great Again' hat etc. Me and the others on the trip have just assumed he has been ironically trolling because of what we know of his character and his previous outlook on the world.

    During the election we realised this wasn't the case and he was actively supporting Trump - he got really ratty with the points we were raising during the broadcast and it eventually turned into a very heated argument where we were all pointing out the awful things Trump has said and done and he was throwing back bullshit false rebuttals and conspiracies that are literally taken word-for-word from alt-right propaganda news and sites. He ended up watching the rest of the election in his room by himself.

    I challenged him about all of this after and realised that while it may have started off as ironic trolling it 100% isn't any more. He believes these things; he began regurgitating talking points and opinions that bear no reflection to the person I've known for the past 25 years; he was supporting people and views that are actively offensive to me and my friends. I checked his Facebook likes and they are swamped with all of this alt-right bullshit - the day after the election he shared a picture from Milo Yiannopolous of Cartman licking tears with the caption 'liberal tears taste delicious'. I can't describe how horrifying this was to discover based on the person I used to know - someone who has always been happy to be called 'liberal' himself; who has supported liberal issues and viewpoints for the whole time I've known him; who has a diverse group of friends (including minorities) who would all fall under this umbrella. It genuinely feels like Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

    I feel like I don't know this person any more and it has turned everything I took for granted upside down - I can't bring myself to even talk to him right now. The only word I can find that adequately describes how this feels is 'radicalised'. I know there is a patronising element to that because it implies that he can't have figured out these views by himself and has somehow been led that way - but I really feel like he has been sucked into this culture (possibly through originally being involved in memes and trolling) and become radicalised by it. That is probably being magnified as time goes on because he's now in that social media echo chamber where the majority of the information about the world he is receiving is coming from these sources - I can't find any other way to describe how a person can undergo such a fundamental change in their core values and outlook in such a short period of time. It is an absolutely horrifying switch. I wonder how many other people are being drawn into this from fairly innocuous beginnings in a similar way - so much attention has been focused on radicalisation in an Islamic context and I feel like there is the potential here for this to be just as serious, if not moreso.

  4. #19
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAE View Post
    I feel like I don't know this person any more and it has turned everything I took for granted upside down - I can't bring myself to even talk to him right now. The only word I can find that adequately describes how this feels is 'radicalised'. I know there is a patronising element to that because it implies that he can't have figured out these views by himself and has somehow been led that way - but I really feel like he has been sucked into this culture (possibly through originally being involved in memes and trolling) and become radicalised by it. That is probably being magnified as time goes on because he's now in that social media echo chamber where the majority of the information about the world he is receiving is coming from these sources - I can't find any other way to describe how a person can undergo such a fundamental change in their core values and outlook in such a short period of time. It is an absolutely horrifying switch. I wonder how many other people are being drawn into this from fairly innocuous beginnings in a similar way - so much attention has been focused on radicalisation in an Islamic context and I feel like there is the potential here for this to be just as serious, if not moreso.
    YES. That's exactly how I feel, too. I know so many smart, wonderful people who fell into the Breitbart/Glenn Beck/Infowars/4chan/Reddit trap a few years ago and now they're all in, repeating shit about Hillary's kill list, or Obama's plans to infiltrate top levels of government with the Muslim Brotherhood, or whatever other ridiculousness they read. They are being radicalized by the right in the same way that they fear ISIS recruits are being radicalized, which would be funny if it weren't sad/terrifying. Everything they've screamed about the left, they are now doing on the right. White people are being indoctrinated into hate groups, they're filling top levels of government with white nationalists and anti-Semites, and they're actively recruiting people online in the same way these Muslim extremist groups do.

    I've unfortunately had to cut some friends out of my life because of it. I'm slowly disconnecting from most of my family. There is now a huge chunk of the population who argue over what facts are. I learned at like 5 or 6 years old the difference between fact versus opinion, or fact versus fiction, and yet now people will argue with you about things that are provably true. Newt Gingrich went on some news program and told people it didn't matter if something was true if people didn't feel it. Excuse me? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

  5. #20
    Senior Member JAE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    I've unfortunately had to cut some friends out of my life because of it. I'm slowly disconnecting from most of my family. There is now a huge chunk of the population who argue over what facts are. I learned at like 5 or 6 years old the difference between fact versus opinion, or fact versus fiction, and yet now people will argue with you about things that are provably true. Newt Gingrich went on some news program and told people it didn't matter if something was true if people didn't feel it. Excuse me? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
    This is sadly where I feel like I'm going to have to go too. I was speaking to another friend about it and they took that view that it was a little bit petty to throw away a decades old friendship over a difference of opinion. But to me this is so much more than a difference of opinion - this is a fundamental understanding of the world and the value you put on other people. On a purely personal level (and this goes far beyond that) if you support and enable these people and views then you are contributing to a movement that works against my rights and dignity as a gay man despite how you might say you regard me as an individual. The two positions are not compatible.

  6. #21
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAE View Post
    But to me this is so much more than a difference of opinion - this is a fundamental understanding of the world and the value you put on other people.
    Something I've been stuck on for the last day or so is that by their standards, they're doing something PRINCIPLED and brave by standing up to evil corrupt Hillary. But like, my principles of not having an iota of respect for a racist sexual predator is ridiculous.

  7. #22
    Senior Member JAE's Avatar
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    Hitler salutes and white supremacism: a weekend with the 'alt-right'

    Some of the most prominent members of the so-called “alt-right”, the white nationalist movement that helped propel Donald Trump to the presidency, gathered in Washington DC on Saturday to plot how the movement can “start influencing policy and culture” under the Trump administration.

    There was a celebratory mood as Richard Spencer, the president of the National Policy Institute, a nationalist thinktank which hosted the day-long conference, talked about how the “alt-right” would be an “intellectual vanguard” for Trump and the rightwing at large.

    But to an outsider, the conference merely served as a shocking insight into the racism, sexism and disturbing beliefs of the “alt-right”.

    The event concluded with a 40-minute pseudo-academic lecture called America and Jewish Consciousness, by Kevin MacDonald, a former psychology professor described by the Southern Poverty Law Center as “the neo-Nazi movement’s favorite academic”, and a series of Nazi salutes by members of the audience.

    Trump’s win in the presidential election, and the subsequent selection of Stephen Bannon – the executive chairman of Breitbart News – as Trump’s “chief strategist”, made for plenty of optimism.

    Spencer, one of the most prominent faces of the movement, was among the most optimistic about Trump’s presidency.

    “With Donald Trump, we feel like we have a dog in the fight for the first time,” Spencer told the Guardian. “And with him there’s a real chance we could start influencing policy and culture.”

    Spencer said the “alt-right” was aiming to exert that influence by publishing regular policy papers advancing white nationalist ideas. The hope is that “alt-right” ideas can enter the mainstream and – through Trump and Bannon – have an impact on the government.

    A policy he mentioned several times on Saturday is “a break on all immigration” for a 50-year period – something he believes would help maintain a white-dominant society in the US.

    “We want to influence people. We want to be an intellectual vanguard that starts to inflect policy, inflect culture, inflect politics,” he said.

    “That’s what we can do.”

    The “alt-right” visit to Washington DC had got off to an inauspicious start.

    Conference attendees had gathered at a restaurant for a private dinner on Friday night, but anti-fascism protesters were tipped off to their location and stormed into the restaurant, disrupting the meal.

    The protesters were swiftly ushered outside, but not before one of them had sprayed Spencer with what the thinktank president described as a “shit-smelling substance”.

    On Saturday morning, about 200 activists demonstrated outside the conference at the Ronald Reagan building, a couple of blocks south-east of the White House.

    Inside Spencer, who seemed to have got rid of the smell, held a press conference in the convention hall. About 150 movement adherents watched as journalists asked questions; listeners occasionally booed certain publications – including the Guardian.

    The Southern Poverty Law Center has described Spencer as “a suit-and-tie version of the white supremacists of old, a kind of professional racist in khakis”, and on Saturday he was dressed accordingly, in a fitted grey suit and brown loafers, and sporting an undercut hairstyle.

    Spencer, 38, who grew up in Boston, had convened a panel of five other white men for the conference, but he did most of the talking – railing against the protesters and Twitter, which recently suspended the accounts of Spencer and others.

    When the time came for questions, I pointed out – to more boos from the crowd – that there were very few women at the event. It prompted a surreal discussion between six white men about the sexual preferences of women.

    The almost entirely male audience cheered when Spencer made his statement about women’s desire for a “strong man”.

    “I’ve looked at a lot of romance novels that women read and I’ve noticed a distinct pattern,” Spencer said.

    “Romance novels about cubicle-dwelling boring computer programmers don’t sell very well. Romance novels about cowboys and vikings seem to be very popular. We might want to look at something like that and see if that tells us something about human nature.”

    MacDonald, the academic, had been drafted onto the panel. He also chipped in.

    “This is textbook stuff,” MacDonald said. “Women are attracted to wealth and power.”

    The term “alt-right” was coined by Spencer, and refers to an American movement. But it was clear that the success of the movement had begun to interest people from elsewhere.

    Three men from a Dutch group called Erkenbrand, which they said was inspired by the movement, had come to the US specifically for the conference.

    “It’s about preserving the nationality of our country,” said one of them, who gave his name as Bas. “It’s coming to a point where in 50 years, ethnically Dutch will be a minority.”

    Matthew Tait, a former member of the British National party, a far-right political party that peaked in 2009, when it won two seats in European parliament, was also in attendance. He said he had formed “alt-right London” in August. The group has around 25 members.

    “I’ve got people coming along who have never been involved in any politics before, never been involved in any political party, but they have become red-pilled,” Tait said, a reference to the 1999 film, The Matrix, on the idea of taking a pill and recognising reality.

    “A lot of that comes from the shared language we have with Americans. It’s a lot of the American websites – it’s from VDare, American Renaissance [two popular ‘alt-right’ websites] and to even Alex Jones, they’ve come into contact with out-of-the-box thinking.”

    Like Spencer, Tait, 31, was well-dressed, in a sharp suit and a white open-necked shirt.

    Well-spoken and porcine, he seemed harmless enough until he started talking about how “you can’t really be English, Scottish, Irish or Welsh unless you are broadly genetically from that place”. He told me that his test for Britishness would be to “use your eyes”, and talked about how British people of Indian and Pakistani heritage – even third generation Brits – would ideally self-deport “to be with their own people”.

    Outside the conference, the anti-fascist activists were protesting almost exactly the kind of thing Tait was saying. The demonstration continued for most of the day, blocking the main entrance to the Reagan building.

    The presence of the protesters meant that most of the conference attendees chose to spend a designated two-hour break inside the building, instead of exploring the National Mall or walking over towards the White House.

    It gave me the opportunity to chat to some of the conference-goers. A 26-year-old man named JP started telling me about the culture of the movement.

    “There are three categories of clothing,” he said.

    “There’s ‘fascie’. That’s like a portmanteau of the word fascist but used to describe a look – like a really dark suit.

    “You’ve got the heritage look, tweed, cable knit, corduroy pants. The kind of stuff you see Nigel Farage walking around in. Then there’s retro 1980s: bomber jacket, acid-wash jeans.”

    I’d noticed the number of people with undercuts at the conference – the short back and sides, long on top hairstyle popular with people from Brooklyn and actors from the television show Peaky Blinders. It’s called a fascie, JP said.

    JP, who was wearing a purple suit, a grey turtleneck, and Wolverine boots that his cousin bought him for his birthday, had travelled to the conference from Connecticut.

    He’d told his parents he was going to media event for millennials – he’s a media production student – and as we walked outside the convention hall to get some air he told me he was uncomfortable with having lied.

    “I feel like a piece of shit,” JP said.

    “It’s difficult sometimes because my family doesn’t like it when I talk about politics. And it’s sad for me because I know it makes them uncomfortable, but at the same time it almost feels like I’m coming out of the closet in the way.

    “In fact that’s what it feels like for a lot of millennials. They feel like they can’t be who they are.”

    A lot of people at the conference talked to me about about “evolutionary psychology”: the idea that human behavior has been shaped by natural selection. They almost always used this idea to draw parallels between race and intelligence.

    JP gave an example.

    “Different ethnic groups are more likely to have higher IQs than each other,” he said.

    “Let’s say that you live in an area where it snows a lot – well, your ancestors have to figure out how to deal with the snow. Which means they have to figure out how to store food and for how long, how much salt do they have to put in with the meat. All these things that caused their brain to go: ‘OK, how do I …’

    “Whereas if, let’s say, you live in a jungle environment where there’s food literally everywhere and there’s only two weather conditions, rainy and sunny, then your brain doesn’t need to really go: ‘Oh, I got to think about how to do stuff.’”

    This was one of the many times at the NPI conference where I was being told so many offensive things I felt as if I was being lampooned. But time after time I heard variations on the same themes JP or Tait had talked about.

    At the conference’s evening drinks reception, I was chatting to a smartly dressed man in his mid-40s. Like many at the conference, he didn’t want to be named. When he realized I was British, he told me the UK was “infested with blacks”. He then said people from Africa were at a “different level of evolutionary development” and that non-white people were of “inferior stock”.

    The man was more openly racist than others at the conference – he actually used the term “racist” to refer to himself – but his comments were essentially the same as what JP had said.

    And it wasn’t as if the racism was only coming from casual attendees.

    Bill Regnery, the founder of the National Policy Institute and a man who looks like a less pleasant version of Ron Paul, came over to me at one point near the entrance to the convention center and grabbed my arm. He said he thought the “alt-right” was “fucking brilliant”, then started talking about how “Pakis” – a racial slur for people from Pakistan – were ruining the UK.

    Reeling from that, I walked into the area where people were eating dinner just in time to see around 20 men – some wearing Make America Great Again hats – leap from their seats and give the Nazi salute to a speaker.

    One of the men wearing a hat, called Mack, walked past and me and I asked what the salute was about.

    “The whole thing is we have jokes that offend the outside and we laugh,” he said.

    “It’s hilarious.”

    While Mack and I were talking, MacDonald, the former professor, was giving his speech on America and Jewish consciousness. He’d started off his speech by saying: “Tonight I want to talk about Jews,” which had got a big laugh from the crowd.

    I asked Mack, 30, if he believed in the Holocaust. A couple of people I’d spoken to earlier had expressed doubts.

    “I’m not sure, I don’t know what to believe,” he said. “If it did happen, that’s a terrible thing. I don’t agree with genocide.

    “But I mean, if it happened it’s a very practical, I mean an uber-practical, kind of thing to say: ‘If it is people among a people who, let’s say, are destroying Germany because of x, y, z, then let’s root them all out and destroy them as people completely.’

    “That’s pretty practical. But it doesn’t mean that it’s a moral thing. It’s not admirable. I don’t think it’s a good thing.”

    There didn’t seem to be a consistent theme in why people at the conference wanted a majority-white America. The people I spoke to didn’t even have that much in common, beyond being racist and angry and confused.

    JP said his family were all Democrats. He’d become interested in the “alt-right” through the internet. A man who wanted to be identified as “an attendee” said he became a white nationalist after his father-in-law drove him through a predominantly black neighborhood in a large city.

    Others cited suspect academics, whose work is circulated by “alt-right” publications, to suggest that different races were better kept apart.

    The movement is sometimes presented as a sort of blue-collar rejection of establishment politicians and the status quo.

    But this wasn’t a gathering of a forgotten white working class, who had lost manufacturing jobs or been left behind by globalization. The majority of attendees were in their 20s or 30s, and everyone I spoke to either had a job or was in school.

    This was essentially a gathering of racists. Racists who have found a movement that echoes their views and gives them a place to vent their anger.

    In a different time, it might have been better to ignore these people entirely. There have always been angry, confused, racist men.

    But this particular group of angry, confused, racist men now have a president who was elected, in part, by speaking their language. In Bannon, they will have one of the icons of their movement stationed in the White House, advising that president.

    With Spencer and the rest of the “alt-right” hoping to capitalize on those connections, dismissing this movement would be a mistake.

  8. #23
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    I always wondered about Spencer's thoughts on romance novels...

  9. #24
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Talk about normalization: Vice makes the alt-right look sexy.

    My biggest fear about this is that articles like these only end up serving as recruitment propaganda. Just wait until Spencer has a cameo on The Simpsons or South Park has an alt-right episode. Even if they were made fun of, the alt-right would just use it ironically.

  10. #25
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    If there is one good story it's this. Say what you want about the tactics but results were certainly cool. The restaurant gave their proceeds to ADL and apparently Green Day repeated the chant at a performance last night(?). Usually, antifa pressures restaurants to cancel reservations. If you notice though, NPI and co are loving the attention. My guess is that the result wasn't something they were pleased with. These fuckers love attention, but they hate being embarassed. They hate having their pride checked.

    Which reminds me, alt-right is a rebranding attempt. If we aren't going to call them fash, can we rebrand them as alt-rot? Something more clever? Also, insulting diminutives for their names? Is that too far?

  11. #26
    Vilest of the vile Homogenik's Avatar
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    The alt-right movement goes full Nazi as Steve Bannon prepares to enter the White House

    I have to connect these disturbing dots for you.

    Steve Bannon was recently appointed as Chief Strategist for President-elect Donald Trump. It was simply a promotion for Bannon, who served as CEO of Trump's presidential campaign.

    Bannon, though, was not an experienced political strategist. He was the head of Breitbart News. Just a few months ago, he openly bragged that under his leadership he transformed Breitbart into "the platform of the alt-right movement." Those are his words — not from some distant past, but from this past July.

    I've said it many times, but the alt-right movement is simply the KKK without the hoods. They are skinheads with suits and ties. They simply chose a new name, but are fueled by the same hate and the same philosophy as previous white supremacist and Neo-Nazi movements.

    This weekend, it all came to a full boil. Richard Spencer, who coined the term "alt-right" and is seen as one of its founders and public intellectuals, openly wore his Neo-Nazi heart on his sleeve.



    FRIDAY, NOV. 11, 2016, FILE PHOTO
    Steve Bannon was recently appointed as Chief Strategist for President-elect Donald Trump. (Evan Vucci/AP)

    I have to connect these disturbing dots for you.

    Steve Bannon was recently appointed as Chief Strategist for President-elect Donald Trump. It was simply a promotion for Bannon, who served as CEO of Trump's presidential campaign.

    Bannon, though, was not an experienced political strategist. He was the head of Breitbart News. Just a few months ago, he openly bragged that under his leadership he transformed Breitbart into "the platform of the alt-right movement." Those are his words — not from some distant past, but from this past July.

    I've said it many times, but the alt-right movement is simply the KKK without the hoods. They are skinheads with suits and ties. They simply chose a new name, but are fueled by the same hate and the same philosophy as previous white supremacist and Neo-Nazi movements.

    Trump adviser Stephen Bannon boasts that 'darkness is good'

    This weekend, it all came to a full boil. Richard Spencer, who coined the term "alt-right" and is seen as one of its founders and public intellectuals, openly wore his Neo-Nazi heart on his sleeve.
    DESERET NEWS OUT; MANDATORY CREDIT
    154 photos view gallery
    Protests erupt around the country after Donald Trump is elected president

    I can hardly believe what I am about to quote.

    At an Alt-Right conference being held, of all places, in a federal building in Washington D.C., Spencer didn't even attempt to hide his bigotry and anti-Semitism.

    According to the NY Times, He railed against Jews and, with a smile, quoted Nazi propaganda in the original German. America, he said, belonged to white people, whom he called the "children of the sun," a race of conquerors and creators who had been marginalized but now, in the era of President-elect Donald J. Trump, were "awakening to their own identity."

    As he finished, several audience members had their arms outstretched in a Nazi salute. When Mr. Spencer, or perhaps another person standing near him at the front of the room — it was not clear who — shouted, "Heil the people! Heil victory," the room shouted it back.

    (...)
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.2882385

  12. #27
    pummelled gall-nuts afloat in urine
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    My cousin invited me to like "Meninist" on Facebook this week. It wasnt completely out of nowhere but I'm terrified. I've definitely neglected him. I've been trying to coaxe him back to sanity and (hopefully) onto socialism. Once you're in those groups and make friends from those groups it just becomes a fascist snowball.
    Last edited by Andrew; 11-22-2016 at 05:47 PM.

  13. #28
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    A handy guide


  14. #29
    Let them eat cheese flan Nancy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncanny hats View Post
    Which reminds me, alt-right is a rebranding attempt. If we aren't going to call them fash, can we rebrand them as alt-rot? Something more clever? Also, insulting diminutives for their names? Is that too far?
    I just think if you want to have a message that's consistent, you should probably resist attempts to change the terminology, and fall back on the old faithfuls. Fascist is fine, as long as you're specific about who you're referring to. I once thought you were referring to Hillary when you posted, "Don't vote for the fascist."

    A lot of people in this country who are my age haven't even bothered to Google "cisgender" or "intersectionality" or "third wave feminism," even though they might understand and empathize very well, because they just stop listening when they have the perception that they're just temporary buzzwords.

  15. #30
    fluid, affectionate, chaste, mature Mackerel's Avatar
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    I am the biggest word nerd you'll ever meet. I fetishize words like nobody's business. But I'm worried about the alienating effects of constantly using words a lot of folks in the Midwest probably don't know - especially non-college educated people. I understand trans awareness is an important part of the battle, and I would never say otherwise. I just wonder if in communicating all this stuff on social media I should be conscious of using more accessible language.

    As for alt right, I think everyone's rapidly coming to an understanding of what that means. Words and meaning have a two way relationship. Sometimes the meaning starts sticking to a word, or the meaning leaves the word. It's never static.

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