Westworld

[Regina Phalange]

This season has two of my least favorite things: wonky timelines and subtitles.

Now, S1 had non linear timelines and it worked because we SUSPECTED, but didn't know. And it worked as a whole. This season I have to be like "ok, now this happened first? Is this NOW now or then now?" I'm sure some superfan has a handy chart available, but if I need a chart to have basic understanding instead of using a chart for deep diving, it's not a show that works.

Subtitles aren't a bad thing in and of themselves, but subtitles in a show WHERE EVERYONE IS A ROBOT AND COULD SPEAK ENGLISH AT ANY FUCKING TIME and in a show that normally doesn't HAVE them is annoying. Heroes did it too and it made me nope the fuck out. I don't mind being challenged, but if I have to follow that closely to have the most basic grasp of what is going on, it's not the show for me. If you're a caption show, good for you. But if you're a non caption show that suddenly is hugely captioned every week? Fuck you.

[John's Face]

Finally caught up so I can join in.
This season is confusing but I don't feel lost. I'm enjoying watch it unfold. Shogun World is so awesome and I'd be fine if the show stayed there for a while.
The only thing I'm not getting is Dolores' motivations. Like, what was her reason for sacrificing the confederados at the fortress? It was like she wanted them dead, not for strategy, just to kill them.

[John's Face]

Ok, last night's episode was the most confusing episode yet, but I still loved it.

Not knowing when things are happening is certainly making it hard to follow but I have faith there will be a piece that locks it all together.
Also the fact that we know there are multiple Bernards makes me wonder if there is more than one Bernard existing in different parts of the storyline. UGH! EEEEK!

Also, that stupid scene with the dude getting all flirty with the host right before she blows up the Cradle. Poor writing. Oh, yes, there is a massacre going on and all the hosts have gone homicidal, but sure I'll take a minute to fuck... that was dumb.

[Ryan]

I absolutely fucking loved tonight’s episode. I could have watched two more hours of Zahn McClarnon. It was beautifully acted and narrated, IMO.

[Regina Phalange]

It was my favorite of the season so far even though it had all the problems I've had with other episodes. Somehow it worked for this one episode. Maybe because the actor is just fantastic? And scary as fuck if you've seen Fargo.

I mean, it didn't win me over for the season as a whole, but a decent hour of tv.

And as I watched it, I did start to get antsy after a while. Premium shows shouldn't be a solid hour. 50 minutes, tops. Commercial shows are 40-45. That extra 10-15 makes things just drag, even when it's a good episode.

Also? The subtitles were really hard to read. White text with a subtle black outline imposed over someone with painted white skin? No thanks.

[CC]

Just watched the finale of season two...and I am really lost here: too many time jumps, some surprises, but overall, I think I lost motivation to rewatch the whole season to make more sense out of it.

[John's Face]

I enjoyed the season, but yeah after the finale, I'm ready for a long break. It was a bit exhausting to even try to follow. And it feels a little like they are pulling a Lost on us and are just throwing out mysteries to keep the fans talking but will never answer any of it.
And I just don't really care about any of the characters except Maeve.

[MTC]

And I just don't really care about any of the characters except Maeve.

She has the most emotional pull for me as well. Her story is pretty straight forward and maybe that's why.

As for basically everything else, I guess I think I know what's up but not entirely sure. It feels overly complicated. Maybe the time jumps were to give you the same sense of disorientation that many of the hosts feel. I actually said at one point, "Is this now? or what?"

Hiding a few questions and things under here to see if I'm on the same page as the rest of you.

There is no Ford only, one Bernard.

William is some kind of host. Not like the rest but some kind. Not like Delos either.

The nifty little garden/workshop where Delores/Charlotte ended up and eventually Bernard; do you think it's actually a doorway to our world or just another level of the computer generated world? Like the Valley Beyond. I think it's another doorway or level and not the outside world.

I also have this idea that something catastrophic has happened to the "real world". Something predicted and it's why so much data was being collected about the guests. A way to keep humanity alive in a way. It may not have started out that way, but it's what it became for those who could afford it. However due to the limitations of the technology and programing, it's the shit show we saw. I think there are few actual humans left, and the Forge is trying to generate as many host as possible to put the guest's data into as fast as possible. But the process is slow or slowing. Trying to adapt and not quite getting it right. The hosts developing self awareness is causing issues too. Too sci-fi?

[Crispy]

I absolutely fucking loved tonight’s episode. I could have watched two more hours of Zahn McClarnon. It was beautifully acted and narrated, IMO.

Yeah, episodes like S2E8 are what keep me excited for this series despite all the convoluted AI plothole messes and sometimes puzzling character choices. (Like the writer Lee's choice in the S2 finale. WTF!?) You've seen Fargo S2, right? If you haven't then you're in for a treat. Zahn plays a badass named Hanzee.

I enjoyed the season, but yeah after the finale...And I just don't really care about any of the characters except Maeve.

Thandie Newton is one of my favorite actresses, so Maeve was my favorite character in S1. But she began to wain for me in S2 when she became "Super Maeve." And I'm not really sure what to expect after that finale. I felt that whole ending sequence before "the sublime" was just...off for her character and an excuse to keep her around fro S3.

Speaking of the ending and that post-credit scene, check out this HBO video for clarification.
S2E10 Spoilers...

So the MIB is a host at the end. He was undergoing a simulation in the park for "fidelity" similar to his predecessor, James Delos in S2E4. However, they say he really did mistakenly kill his daughter Emily. So presumably everything this season with him could either be "real MIB history" or part of Host MIB future fidelity test in the park. But basically everything once the MIB gets in the elevator is in the "very far future." Also, the EMily who meets him after he gets off the elevator is indeed a host.

Nolan & Joy also did an interesting video commentary for probably my second favorite episode this season, S2E4 "Riddle of the Sphinx," but they also go in to a bit of discussion about the finale towards the end.

. . .Hiding a few questions and things under here to see if I'm on the same page as the rest of you.

There is no Ford only, one Bernard.

William is some kind of host. Not like the rest but some kind. Not like Delos either.

The nifty little garden/workshop where Delores/Charlotte ended up and eventually Bernard; do you think it's actually a doorway to our world or just another level of the computer generated world? Like the Valley Beyond. I think it's another doorway or level and not the outside world.

I also have this idea that something catastrophic has happened to the "real world". Something predicted and it's why so much data was being collected about the guests. A way to keep humanity alive in a way. It may not have started out that way, but it's what it became for those who could afford it. However due to the limitations of the technology and programing, it's the shit show we saw. I think there are few actual humans left, and the Forge is trying to generate as many host as possible to put the guest's data into as fast as possible. But the process is slow or slowing. Trying to adapt and not quite getting it right. The hosts developing self awareness is causing issues too. Too sci-fi?

Here are my comments and attempts to answer some of those from your spoiler tag above...

1. Yes and no. As of the end of S2E10 we can assume Ford's programming "packet" is wiped from Bernard completely. Bernard had a talk w/ himself on the beach where part of his own "mind" manifested itself as Ford. However, who knows WTF is really going on. The writers maybe?

2. The MIB (Ed Harris) is very similar to Delos. See my other spoiler comment.

3. That garden workshop at the end of S2E10 w/ naked Bernard, Dolores v2.0, & Host Hale is outside the park in the "Real World" of humans. It's Arnold's home in NYC, I believe. It was shown earlier this season. Arnold took Dolores there when she was "young" and it was still under construction. He had that home recreated inside the park, too.

4. Mind. Blown. That theory is great! This theory explains why Delos was so keen on saving The Forge & its data and why they're so indifferent to the humans being killed in the park. It also explains why Bernard fought so hard to save The Forge and why Ford thought the hosts were the next step in human evolution--or maybe a better way to phrase it is hosts are what Ford thought humans ought to be.