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Thread: Native Invader | Now Released

  1. #3856
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam View Post
    I'm obviously exited to hear Cloud Riders but I must admit it's a bit strange for the first song released from a new album to be titled after a character(s) that was part of a confined narrative on NOH
    Not trying to be dismissive here, but the reference to the cloud riders is hardly part of the confined narrative of NOH. It's a single reference in a single song. Same thing with Invisible Boy on UG. The cloud riders aren't demonstrably part of the fox/goose/Annabel nonsense. It's probably just an idea...or more likely, just an evocative noun/phrase...that Tori likes and wanted to use again. Nothing mysterious.
    "See everything as an illusion, and enjoy it even though you are not of it."
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  2. #3857
    Senior Member SloppyJane's Avatar
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    Single cover art?

    Living in my own personal Cornwall bubble

  3. #3858
    mat-a-tat-tat bratboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notherkind View Post
    I have a feeling that she really wants a song with Tash to be a mainstream success. Promise was released as a "single" and is probably the most musically accessible song on UG (ruined, I agree, by Tori's awkward doubled vocals). Up The Creek has been described as rhythmically adventurous and "pulsating," which to be sounds like a similar endeavor.

    At this point, I wish she would stop using her output as a way to get Tash radio play.
    That seems a little cynical. Do we know that her daughter even aspires to such things?

  4. #3859
    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    Yup! We can throw it in the same arena as:

    -Lucy
    -Lucifer
    -lip gloss
    -running
    -shoes

    Which show up in multiple songs!
    I honestly think it might be a way for her to reference the idea of "angels" without actually using that word and all the cliched/negative connotations that come with it. It wouldn't be the first time. (see: the Ninefold in Apollo's Frock, which as far as I can tell is a reference to the nine orders of angels in Christian mythology).
    "See everything as an illusion, and enjoy it even though you are not of it."
    ~Alanis Morissette, paraphrased

  5. #3860
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    I always assumed it was about the Cloud People in Native American culture, but I guess that would have been an odd thing to reference on NOH which was largely taken from European mythology, correct?

  6. #3861
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    I always assumed it was about the Cloud People in Native American culture, but I guess that would have been an odd thing to reference on NOH which was largely taken from European mythology, correct?
    Could be, but who knows? It's also likely that it's a synthesis of multiple related references. I feel like she does that a lot in her lyrics.
    "See everything as an illusion, and enjoy it even though you are not of it."
    ~Alanis Morissette, paraphrased

  7. #3862
    Threat level: Bitch in a wheelchair andy's Avatar
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    In Irish mythology there are several races that arrived before the Celts - the Formorians who were giants, the Tuatha Dé Danann and the Milesians, who may have been the first Celts. The Tuatha Dé Danann were what we now refer to as faeries, though I believe the phrase translates roughly as Tribe of the Goddess Danu. As Tori has mentioned herself, they Tuatha Dé were a race of people who were driven underground, and ultimately they did, after losing a battle, make deal with the Milesians to live in the mounds of the land, while their successors lived above the earth. There are varying versions of the myth - in one the arrived in Ireland and set their ships alight so that they would not be tempted to return home or run from battle with the Formorians and so they could arrive under the cover of smoke, but there are plenty of other versions that state that they descended from the clouds in a heavy fog. I always assumed that the Cloud Riders was just a way for her to reference faeries or ancient gods of the sky, beginning in the Irish mythological cycle, but probably just becoming a way for her to refer to any deity.
    Last edited by andy; 07-17-2017 at 10:11 PM.

  8. #3863
    Well guess what Mimi, WE DID. Octopussy's Avatar
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    For first single... I was about to bet on either Wings (the second track was the single on SW, TBK, ADP, AATS and UG) or Up The Creek. I'm not surprised she's going with a guitar-heavy track though. Trouble's Lament is almost all guitar and I like that one quite a bit. If it's more of a Welcome To England type sound, the disappointment is gonna be big but all too familiar.

    FYI Trouble's Lament was immediately followed by Selkie as the next promoted track, even though it wasn't a "single." I think this promotional cycle will look more like UG's... Cloud Riders and Up The Creek as the official singles, with Reindeer King or something else as an extra to remind people why Tori is famous (hint hint not because of pop singles)
    Last edited by Octopussy; 07-17-2017 at 09:57 PM.

  9. #3864
    ForumBound EnjoyJoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoodlefish View Post
    I remember reading it's a turtle or tortoise race that she did actually witness, and one of the reptiles was marked with grapefruit to distinguish it from another, but I can't find my source now.

    Excited about the new release of course!
    I remember someone telling me that you race turtles by baiting them with something tied to a string. And you identify each turtle by it's bait.
    "A universe that needed someone to observe it in order to collapse it into existence would be a pretty sorry universe indeed."

  10. #3865
    Get Out The Dark Adam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    Yup! We can throw it in the same arena as:

    -Lucy
    -Lucifer
    -lip gloss
    -running
    -shoes

    Which show up in multiple songs!
    I see what you and Mark are saying, but can't we agree that "cloud riders" has way more significance than "running" or "shoes"? There's always going to be words that come up often in an artist's repertoire, but "cloud riders" seems obviously way more intentional than even mentioning a horse ( even though I know it has been intentional for her). But I went back and read my post thinking "didn't Mark see where I'd said I hoped they were just an idea that fascinated her and weren't just tied to NOH?" and realized that although I had intended to say that, it didn't make it into the post. I love the idea/image of Cloud Riders. It was just pure speculation on my part that it was possibly an older song and I was just saying that I'd rather it be a new one titled CR that was written because they arent an idea or concept that she's been able to shake.
    The Landslide Never Brought, Brought Me Down

  11. #3866
    Senior Member scottslean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam View Post
    If you're big enough, you can choose. Kate Bush fought for Wuthering Heights to be her first single and from then on, she chose.

    Here's the thing: now that singles are basically pre-order goodies, I've noticed that sometimes an artist like Tori doesn't release the "definitive" single first anymore . When you're someone like Lorde with a video ready to go, you absolutely DO pick an album's first single and let it rip. I have a feeling that now, with lots of artists, the idea is to put out a teaser track closely followed by a more hard-hitting single or one closer to the release date. For instance, with St. Vincent, I'm pretty sure we're not getting a video for New York but will get one for the next song to be released which will be more along the lines of a proper single and will be the one she'll be performing on all of the late night shows.

    So...it could go either way. Maybe Cloud Riders is the obvious choice for a first single or maybe it's gonna be the "little taste" to hold us over until Up the Creek or Reindeer King is really pushed as the definitive "single" or introduction to the album ( with a video, etc) that lines up with tv promo. I'm assuming that by US tv promo time, she'll be pushing Up The Creek, because if those dates are correct, it would be the song most recently released before the start of proper North American promo. Plus, Up The Creek has a better track time for radio. Both CR and RK would have to have a radio edit. Then again, ASF was a huge single for her and it was 5 minutes plus without the radio edit. Still, with UTC being released only two weeks after CR, and RK not coming for weeks after that, my money is on UTC being the "actual single" if you can even call it that because two weeks isn't giving CR much time to breathe until UTC is released.

    Does that make sense at all?
    I work at a major label. it does and doesn't work that way. but you nailed a lot of it.

    totally depends on the deal and the artist. artist and their team usually has a strong opinion on what they want as the focus track or single. these days in the world of instant grats, sometimes no one knows what the single will be and we wait for the data of "which instant grat is performing the best" - that then becomes the commercial single, gets a video treatment, etc. etc. I have heard some stories though about unlikely singles that were the artists choice - ie: Dangerous Woman by Ariana Grande - she insisted that be her single. And as a label, youre not going to argue with your breadwinner (in that instance).

    the curve ball for tori is, who knows what her record deal is. I have a HUGE feeling she has the type of deal where she's solely using the label for distribution and maybe some promo (radio). She has boutique PR, same publicity for the past few albums in fact. Otherwise I feel like the label has very little say in terms of A+R (which is a blessing and a curse, blessing because she's free to do as she wants, curse because it gives us some of the serious clunkers we're now accustomed to). In fact, I have a feeling regardless of being on a label, she pays for a lot of things out of pocket - its how she remains free. Which is why her photo shoots and videos have severely declined over the past well, decade. That said, she's also not a radio artist anymore - aside from a few non-comm stations that will still spin her, and a few HAC stations - its a wasted expense to push too hard at radio. It is SO expensive to service music to radio.

    The X factor is, she makes her money touring as we all know, so I'm not sure if they have any stake in that or help her financially in terms of touring... there's no way Tori would be doing a 360 deal at this point in her career, so whatever it is, it's a funky deal.

    Sorry this is all word vomit, just wanted to weigh in a bit. Ignore me if everyone already knew most of this. Just seeing a lot of weird speculation the past 40 pages.

  12. #3867
    Get Out The Dark Adam's Avatar
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    Could you give any info about my hypothetical that sometimes the first track you hear is just considered a teaser and not necessarily the first "single"/ song they're going to use to promote the album during the peak of the promo push?
    The Landslide Never Brought, Brought Me Down

  13. #3868
    Alt Universe CliqueMember Spikey's Avatar
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    +1 Cloud Riders as God myths. Many Germanic myths feature celestial beings ridimg on horses or other beasties through the sky, like Odin. There are also examples in Greek myths, like Helios and Aurora.

    "Lucy" btw, didnt Tori once say that in PGY that character might actually be... herself? Like, how she features in many lives as a background character and topic of discussion herself.
    "Replies are a combination of nonsense, unrelated comments and inside jokes"‎

  14. #3869
    Alt Universe CliqueMember Spikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey View Post
    "Lucy" btw, didnt Tori once say that in PGY that character might actually be... herself? Like, how she features in many lives as a background character and topic of discussion herself.

    Here is that OL'D quote I was referring to;
    " The tragedy of that for me, just seeing that over and over again, got to me so much that I wrote Pretty Good Year. You don’t really know what my role is. Am I Lucy, or am I that eight bars of grunge that comes out near the end where I express, and then nothing, everything else is Greg’s story? I found that kind of really fun. The emotion is coming from somebody else’s story. And yet it touched me so that I could sing it.”
    "Replies are a combination of nonsense, unrelated comments and inside jokes"‎

  15. #3870
    entertaining in its outrage Volta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I think "singles" these days are virtually indecipherable from "pre-order downloads"; I imagine the iTunes download for each track will be activated on the dates listed. They may also get a standalone iTunes release with different cover art. But fuck me I miss CD singles so much.
    When Trouble's Lament came out I was like.. NOOOO. The whole album will sound like this. And I was so happy to be wrong. I love the majority of the songs on UGs. So I know better than to get derailed by a singular release. But I hope whatever the single is I love it, obviously.
    Miss Vanjieeee. Miss Vanjiee. ..Miss Van..

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