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Thread: PWR BTTM

  1. #16
    pummelled gall-nuts afloat in urine
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    I don't like it as much as the last right now, in that it doesn't have that same core selection of immediate obvious standout bangers, but I've a feeling it's gonna be a grower.

  2. #17
    I'm in love with it. I'm a bitch for horns and added instrumentation tho so it was destined

  3. #18
    Member dimshala's Avatar
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    Did y'all see this?

    http://pitchfork.com/news/73444-pwr-...m-allegations/
    In a new Facebook post, PWR BTTM’s Ben Hopkins and Liv Bruce have responded to allegations of sexual abuse, predatory behavior, and anti-Semitism made against Hopkins. The accusations, posted in a private Facebook group and then circulated on Twitter and Reddit, were made by a person who claims to have “personally seen” Hopkins “initiate inappropriate sexual contact with people despite several ‘nos’ and without warning or consent.”

  4. #19
    Senior Member Andyland's Avatar
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    Very disappointing to hear

  5. #20

  6. #21
    Remember. Steve SFM's Avatar
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    I thought that Sadie Dupuis (Speedy Ortiz, Sad13) might have something interesting to say about this, because she often talks about safety issues (SO started a safety hotline for their shows). So I checked out her Twitter @sad13 to see what she was saying and....wow. Turns out she was date raped a few years ago by a fellow musician (who she doesn't name). She's never talked about it publicly before, but felt that she should under the circumstances. And so now, I feel a little heartbroken.

    A similar thing happened a few years ago to Drunkdriver, a stunningly dark noise rock band from NYC. On the eve of the release of their (brilliant) second album, the drummer's sordid past burst into the light. And the other two members decided the band had to end. (As with PWR BTTM, the record release show was canceled.) The sick thing is that this guy's abusive shit had previously broken up ANOTHER fine noise rock band, LA's Wives. (The other two members of that band went on to an even better band, No Age.)

    So yeah, this is a problem. What may make it even worse in this case is that PWR BTTM had been seen as a positive force for queer/gender nonconforming kids. I guess all that can be done is to make the scene as supportive of victims/survivors as possible. People like Sadie Dupuis can lead the way there. (Mitski has also put herself out there as a supportive presence.) But yeah, it fucking sucks for those it impacts.

    Including Sadie.
    At my core, I think we're gonna be OK.

    Barack Hussein Obama

  7. #22

  8. #23
    They've been dropped by their label, who are offering refunds to anyone who has purchased their music, and have announced they will be making donations to RAINN and AVP.

    Official statement by their label, Polyvinyl, on Facebook:

    Throughout our 20 years, Polyvinyl has purposefully operated on the core principle that everyone deserves to be treated with fairness and respect. There is absolutely no place in the world for hate, violence, abuse, discrimination or predatory behavior of any kind.
    In keeping with this philosophy, we want to let everyone know that we are ceasing to sell and distribute PWR BTTM's music. If you have ordered PWR BTTM products from Polyvinyl and would like to receive a full refund for your purchase, please contact mailorder@polyvinylrecords.com. We ask for your patience as we work to quickly process all requests.
    We will be making donations to the following incredibly important organizations: RAINN (rainn.org) to support its efforts against sexual violence, and AVP (avp.org) to aid its programs against LGBTQ violence.
    Our hearts go out to all victims of discrimination and all survivors of sexual violence.
    I actually got teary-eyed reading that. THIS is how everyone should react to these situations. THAT is being human.

  9. #24
    carried by the sound emanate's Avatar
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    ^ I've never heard a note of PWR BTTM's music and I'm not going to seek it out. I will say, though, that I used to live in the area where Polyvinyl is based and their response makes me glad that I've supported that label over the years.

  10. #25
    ancient savageries Andreas's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who feels a little bit uneasy over how the band has basically been completely ruined (dropped by label, distributer, new and old album rescinded etc) over allegations? I don't know, even when allegations are believable, isn't there something to be said about "innocent until proven guilty"?

    Like I said, I don't know how I feel and do believe it's important to believe victims. But cases like these seem very complicated to me.

    Edit: The anti-semitism accusations seems completely ridiculous to me. People joke about inappropriate shit all the time. It does not mean you are an anti-semite. The accusations from the anonymous girl in Jezebel are very troubling though.
    Last edited by Andreas; 05-15-2017 at 09:46 AM.

  11. #26
    Senior Member thestrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
    Am I the only one who feels a little bit uneasy over how the band has basically been completely ruined (dropped by label, distributer, new and old album rescinded etc) over allegations? I don't know, even when allegations are believable, isn't there something to be said about "innocent until proven guilty"?

    Like I said, I don't know how I feel and do believe it's important to believe victims. But cases like these seem very complicated to me.

    Edit: The anti-semitism accusations seems completely ridiculous to me. People joke about inappropriate shit all the time. It does not mean you are an anti-semite. The accusations from the anonymous girl in Jezebel are very troubling though.
    This. x100.

    It is equally important to believe and trust the supposed victim and to also gather evidence and build a real case against the accused before a witch hunt begins. Obviously accusations of sexual assault are notoriously difficult to prove, but that doesn't mean the burden of proof should be any lower. Mistakes happen all the time, and innocent people end up in jail and have their lives ruined.

    I hope that didn't come out offensive to anyone, I really believe we have to dedicate more resources and support to victims of sexual assault and to law enforcement in pursuing accusations - but I also equally believe in one of our core American values (innocent until proven guilty) which has seemingly disappeared in the internet age.

  12. #27
    Only knows desire. Perky Compson's Avatar
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    "Innocent until proven guilty" and "burden of proof" are legal frameworks, not core American values outside the courtroom.

    If there's anything unsettling about this, it's that allegations of rape against a queer artist lead to immediate ostracization while similar allegations against straight male musicians (Freddie Gibbs, R.Kelly, Michael Gira) lead to a lot of handwringing about separating the artist from the art.

  13. #28
    ancient savageries Andreas's Avatar
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    Perhaps they are legal frameworks, but shouldn't they be core values outside the courtroom as well? I'm sorry, but here you have the future of these two musicians basically destroyed without them having any chance to defend themselves, without any evidence being presented except for hearsay and one anonymous testimony. This guy might be, or is maybe even likely to be, guilty of everything. But the speed with which they've lost everything based on so little evidence is astonishing.

    If you are innocent, how do you defend yourself against these kinds of allegations? We are basically taking what should be legal matters to the court of public opinion while completely sidestepping the actual legal system. And I totally understand the impulse to do that in light of the abysmal respons that allegations of sexual assault are often met with by police and courts, but I don't think this is the answer at all.

  14. #29
    It troubles me, too. Someone's career essentially being destroyed over allegations is beyond the pale. I mean, isn't that defamation? There've been no charges, no convictions. If an anonymous person accused a famous person of any other kind of crime, there wouldn't be this automatic, widespread assumption of guilt based on what basically amounts to "he said/she said." Why is sexual violence different?

    I know that some people say, "Well, the stigma against being a victim of sexual violence is so great that no one would come forward with a false accusation for ulterior motives." I mean, I certainly follow that reasoning, but I don't 100% believe that. People are crazy and say crazy shit and distort the truth and make things up about all kinds of things for all kinds of reasons. Yes, even about being a victim of sexual violence. It just bothers me immensely that, on this matter, people (and I mean people on here) who I normally trust and view as bastions of reason and rational thinking haul out the pitchforks at the slightest intimation of wrongdoing. Doesn't an accusation of this severity deserve the same kind of skepticism--innocent until proven guilty!--that we bring to bear on other types of accusations?
    "See everything as an illusion, and enjoy it even though you are not of it."
    ~Alanis Morissette, paraphrased

  15. #30
    Senior Member JAE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perky Compson View Post
    "Innocent until proven guilty" and "burden of proof" are legal frameworks, not core American values outside the courtroom.

    If there's anything unsettling about this, it's that allegations of rape against a queer artist lead to immediate ostracization while similar allegations against straight male musicians (Freddie Gibbs, R.Kelly, Michael Gira) lead to a lot of handwringing about separating the artist from the art.
    Yes, I was definitely thinking along those lines. Maybe it's just me forgetting things but I can't think of any similar case off the top of my head where the overall response has been so swift and decisive. I do wonder if the queer aspect has something to do with that.

    If the allegations are true then it's really disappointing.

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