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Thread: How Low Can We Go? The President Donald Trump Thread, I guess. :(

  1. #3601
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    I've said it before and I'll say it again: I've been for Bernie for longer than probably any of you have heard of him, before some of you were even born. I have lots of Bernie cred. I even personally know members of his family, have met him, know tons of people who met him.

    But fuck 2010s Bernie. Fuck him 100% for not (imo) doing enough to make sure we wouldn't be living the national nightmare we are currently in. Fuck him for staying in the primaries too long, fuck him for sulking through the Convention, fuck him for not doing enough to stop the left version of the MAGA idiots and their "super delegate" and "emails" and "benghazi" shit. He is not personally responsible for what happened, but with literally just a few hundred thousand votes making the decision in three states, fuck him for not pushing harder for someone with whom he voted the same as something like 94% of the time. I don't feel he did all he could, and THAT'S why he should fuck off. He didn't leave it all on the field to prevent this.

    Fuck him for this.

    Donald Trump is to address the annual conference of an anti-LGBT group which has been classified as a hate group.

    The US president will become the first sitting president to address social conservative activists and elected officials at the Value Voters Summit in Washington DC on Friday.

    President Trump has addressed the event which is hosted by the Family Research Council three times in total and did so last year as the Republican presidential candidate.

    The Family Research Council opposes and actively lobbies against equal rights for LGBT persons. The conservative Christian group campaigns against same-sex marriage, same-sex civil unions, LGBT adoption, abortion, embryonic stell-cell research, pornography and divorce.

    ...

    The Family Research Council opposes civil rights laws to be expanded to encompass sexual orientation and gender identity as illegal bases for discrimination. On top of this, it supports a federal conscience clause which allows medical workers to refuse to deliver certain treatments to their patients, such as abortion, blood transfusion or birth control.

    Back in February 2010, the organisation’s Senior Researcher for Policy Studies, Peter Sprigg, said on NBC's Hardball that gay behaviour should be outlawed and "criminal sanctions against homosexual behaviour" should be enforced.

  2. #3602
    it's a long long climb Kari's Avatar
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  3. #3603
    Only knows desire. Perky Compson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncanny hats View Post
    I talked to my partner about and she pointed out that this was only a conversation that women hash out. And that"s probably true.
    You would do well to internalize this. Do you not understand that, as a white man, there is a power dynamic when you swoop in to "call out white feminism", especially in the name of women of color who either aren't here or who are here and are actively asking you to shut up (hiiiiii)? You're never not going to sound like a dude talking over the ladies.

    Do you understand why I, as a white-passing woman of color, don't often swoop in and try to educate men of color on how men of color can be sexist to women of color? Or why I, as a cis person, don't really jump at trans men to remind them that trans women have it worse? It's because it's an intercommunity dispute that you will never get the full context of. You will never understand what it's like to be a woman being talked down to by a man, with an army of lifelong subordination and belittling and degradation backing him up. You will never get to not invoke that. And sometimes it's fine to invoke that! But you have to be so careful of the time and place because if you're going to talk about being woke or being far-left or caring about the feelings of women then you have to be responsible for how you convey the very systems you claim to be against.

    Not to say you can't disagree with women - even about feminism!!! - but for fuck's sake man, look in the mirror and consider what your real motivations are behind defending a controversial white man speaking at a women's conference and then pretending it's about protecting the honor of the WOC organizers when no one in this thread even knew they were women of color.

  4. #3604
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perky Compson View Post
    You would do well to internalize this. Do you not understand that, as a white man, there is a power dynamic when you swoop in to "call out white feminism", especially in the name of women of color who either aren't here or who are here and are actively asking you to shut up (hiiiiii)? You're never not going to sound like a dude talking over the ladies.

    Do you understand why I, as a white-passing woman of color, don't often swoop in and try to educate men of color on how men of color can be sexist to women of color? Or why I, as a cis person, don't really jump at trans men to remind them that trans women have it worse? It's because it's an intercommunity dispute that you will never get the full context of. You will never understand what it's like to be a woman being talked down to by a man, with an army of lifelong subordination and belittling and degradation backing him up. You will never get to not invoke that. And sometimes it's fine to invoke that! But you have to be so careful of the time and place because if you're going to talk about being woke or being far-left or caring about the feelings of women then you have to be responsible for how you convey the very systems you claim to be against.

    Not to say you can't disagree with women - even about feminism!!! - but for fuck's sake man, look in the mirror and consider what your real motivations are behind defending a controversial white man speaking at a women's conference and then pretending it's about protecting the honor of the WOC organizers when no one in this thread even knew they were women of color.
    My real movitations are open. I've conversed with people on FB about this, many of the same people, was specifically defending the choice an organizer, based on speaking fees and draw. But why wouldn't everyone know they were women of color? They're the same organizers as the organizers of the Women's March. Heck, Linda Sarsour gets beat up in the press every day by Democrat for being too radical. How could you not know?


    But also, as you know there's an overarching, if not specific, politics to collective liberation, identity politics, and privilege politics. It's not as loosey goosey as many make it out. Am I not allowed to call out transphobia when a TERF says something particularly TERFy because she's a woman? The answer is no, and if I let it go, then I would be complicit in perpetuating transphobia, Much in the same way if someone does something racist, if I don't call it out, it's privileged of me not to call it out, especially if someone white is doing it, regardless if they are female. There's a lot of talk right now about why white people aren't doing more...and the answer seems to be "unless people of color say it they don't care" which is controversial on its own because all that means is white people refuse to do the work required, because it's not in their best interests to do so.

    If my racist conservative aunt said something racist, I'm not obligated to keep my mout shut because I'm a white dude. I'm obligated to speak out against racism.

    And you're correct, I will never know what it's like to be a woman and talked down to by a man.

  5. #3605
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    Thank you.

    Also, nunu, it would behoove you to not try and explain to the women in this thread what the Woman's Movement is or isn't. I know you like to think you're more WokeTM than I am but until you've lived a day in my vagina having body in this Year of Our Lord 2017, do NOT try and explain this shit to me.
    Nunu: Well, actually...


  6. #3606
    it's a long long climb Kari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncanny hats View Post
    My real movitations are open. I've conversed with people on FB about this, many of the same people, was specifically defending the choice an organizer, based on speaking fees and draw. But why wouldn't everyone know they were women of color? They're the same organizers as the organizers of the Women's March. Heck, Linda Sarsour gets beat up in the press every day by Democrat for being too radical. How could you not know?


    But also, as you know there's an overarching, if not specific, politics to collective liberation, identity politics, and privilege politics. It's not as loosey goosey as many make it out. Am I not allowed to call out transphobia when a TERF says something particularly TERFy because she's a woman? The answer is no, and if I let it go, then I would be complicit in perpetuating transphobia, Much in the same way if someone does something racist, if I don't call it out, it's privileged of me not to call it out, especially if someone white is doing it, regardless if they are female. There's a lot of talk right now about why white people aren't doing more...and the answer seems to be "unless people of color say it they don't care" which is controversial on its own because all that means is white people refuse to do the work required, because it's not in their best interests to do so.

    If my racist conservative aunt said something racist, I'm not obligated to keep my mout shut because I'm a white dude. I'm obligated to speak out against racism.

    And you're correct, I will never know what it's like to be a woman and talked down to by a man.
    I am well aware the organizers are WOC but just like you sit on your high horse to tell us all we're wrong, I can think they're wrong for hiring Bernie Sanders to make an opening night speech. That doesn't make me racist, it means I strongly disagree with their shitty choice, and many WOC in my own life (not people I've never met) are really upset and disappointed.

    The difference here from your examples is that NO ONE on this forum is racist or transphobic. Not one of us. So, no, you "calling us out" is not furthering any cause, its giving you an excuse to be a dick and has been for a while now. And frankly, you're not endearing anyone to your pet causes acting like this. You talk down to every single woman in this thread, all the time. A lot of us are telling you that. And then you give us a lengthy explanation into why that somehow manages to be even MORE condescending. Perky is right, not everyone knows the organizers are WOC, but in this case, its completely irrelevant. If I said, "I don't think Maxine Waters is a good choice", then yeah, call my ass out. But these women decided to pick a man, and not only a man, a man that has made my WOC friends furious with his lukewarm support of BLM and his constant slamming of identity politics. If you can't appreciate that particular perspective, then I don't know what to tell you, but you're certainly not winning anyone over or making anyone here more """aware""".

  7. #3607
    it's a long long climb Kari's Avatar
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    Also, this thread by Imani Gandy is A+






    it goes on from there

  8. #3608
    Okay, so hold on. A woman hires Bernie Sanders to headline for a women's convention and I'm supposed to be okay with that solely because, omg she's black and he's a cheap hire? And if I'm not okay with it and I say so, it's because I'm racist? NO. The only word that matters in this conversation is WOMAN.

    I'M A WOMAN
    KARI IS A WOMAN
    NANCY IS A WOMAN
    PERKY IS A WOMAN

    And WE as WOMEN (some of whom marched and might want to attend this WOMEN'S conference) think Bernie is a terrible choice. Fuck you if you think that makes us racist. I will not spend another second trying to justify my genuine and completely justifiable response to this to anyone, least of all a condescending person-with-a-penis-and-a-keyboard.
    Last edited by JayPeaches; 10-13-2017 at 04:49 PM.

  9. #3609
    Like, why are we even talking about the race of the person who hired Bernie? WTF does that have to do with ANYTHING

  10. #3610
    Only knows desire. Perky Compson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncanny hats View Post
    My real movitations are open. I've conversed with people on FB about this, many of the same people, was specifically defending the choice an organizer, based on speaking fees and draw. But why wouldn't everyone know they were women of color? They're the same organizers as the organizers of the Women's March. Heck, Linda Sarsour gets beat up in the press every day by Democrat for being too radical. How could you not know?
    Because I've got better shit going on than keeping track of who organizes what march I can't attend because I'm busy working with incarcerated and tribal people? Because I don't care that much about the personalities at play in politics as much as the policies? Because I'm working with my little grassroots anarchist libertarian collective and my time is finite? I didn't know the Women's Conference was even connected to the Women's March, just that it was a big event for women in politics and it was getting headlined by a dude and LOL, that's annoying, it didn't even occur to me to track down the race of the organizers, I only even bothered to form an opinion on it when I came in here and saw you browbeating Kari and Nancy and JP for not knowing what's best for feminism.

    But also, as you know there's an overarching, if not specific, politics to collective liberation, identity politics, and privilege politics. It's not as loosey goosey as many make it out. Am I not allowed to call out transphobia when a TERF says something particularly TERFy because she's a woman? The answer is no, and if I let it go, then I would be complicit in perpetuating transphobia, Much in the same way if someone does something racist, if I don't call it out, it's privileged of me not to call it out, especially if someone white is doing it, regardless if they are female. There's a lot of talk right now about why white people aren't doing more...and the answer seems to be "unless people of color say it they don't care" which is controversial on its own because all that means is white people refuse to do the work required, because it's not in their best interests to do so.
    No, I'm not saying. No one's fucking saying you're "not allowed" so stop pulling that dudeville tripe about how people thinking you're a dick makes you "not allowed" to do something. But we are saying to use tact and sensitivity when you get involved in intercommunity disputes because you white dudes come into discussions on feminism like a fucking wrecking ball shrieking "BUT BERNIE" and using women of color as props to hide behind. You're not calling out racism here, homes, you're freaking out because someone thought a white man was a bad choice for a women's conference for reasons entirely separate from the race of the organizers, which weren't even a consideration for most of the posters in this thread.

    Women - of all races! - are tired of white men using "I'm critiquing white feminism" to put a loincloth on their misogyny. White men jumping in and screaming "white feminism" to make accusations stick was part of "but her emails". "But Benghazi". "But superpredator". Not just for Hillary but for every white (or light-skinned latina) woman the left has turned on. These accusations and worse don't stick to men, and you guys piling into an intercommunity dispute to drive the nail into the post-it note is really, really old.

    If my racist conservative aunt said something racist, I'm not obligated to keep my mout shut because I'm a white dude. I'm obligated to speak out against racism.

    And you're correct, I will never know what it's like to be a woman and talked down to by a man.
    Show me where anyone in this thread said anything close to what a racist conservative aunt would say.

  11. #3611
    generally largely right Dan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPeaches View Post
    Like, why are we even talking about the race of the person who hired Bernie? WTF does that have to do with ANYTHING
    This is why the whole intersectional bullshit sucks.

  12. #3612
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    Not to take away from the general bernie bashing (I'm still mad about the 2000 election, so based on that anger, it's going to be at least 17 years before I'm not mad about him if he doesn't do something to truly redeem himself), but I needed a laugh and I thought some of you would appreciate it... those who are capable of still laughing. I know I do it a lot less these last 11 months.


  13. #3613
    Sleeps to dream entropy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regina Phalange View Post
    Not to take away from the general bernie bashing (I'm still mad about the 2000 election, so based on that anger, it's going to be at least 17 years before I'm not mad about him if he doesn't do something to truly redeem himself), but I needed a laugh and I thought some of you would appreciate it... those who are capable of still laughing. I know I do it a lot less these last 11 months.
    Damn it's been that long? I'm also still bitter about 2000! In 2016 there were a lot of first time voters who didn't REALLY remember the Bush years! While not Trump supporters per se, many of my students (18-22 year olds) thought it was funny that Trump won since they didn't get their way! They didn't understand the gravity of the situation.

  14. #3614
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    Trump spoke at the Values Voter Summit, the first sitting president ever to do so.

    President Donald Trump dove into America's culture wars on Friday, touting his administration for "returning moral clarity to our view of the world" and ending "attacks on Judeo-Christian values."
    Trump, nine months into his presidency, has found it harder to get things done than the ease with which he made promises on the campaign trail, making speeches to adoring audiences like Friday's in Washington key to boosting the President's morale. And the audience at the Values Voter Summit, an annual socially conservative conference, didn't fail to deliver.
    "We are stopping cold the attacks on Judeo-Christian values," Trump said to applause, before slamming people who don't say "Merry Christmas."

    "They don't use the word Christmas because it is not politically correct," Trump said, complaining that department stores will use red and Christmas decorations but say "Happy New Year." "We're saying Merry Christmas again."
    The comment drew thunderous applause.

    ...

    Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, heralded that decision, arguing that it showed Trump is committed to "undoing the anti-faith policies of the previous administration and restoring true religious freedom."

  15. #3615
    it's a long long climb Kari's Avatar
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    I wish I had so few problems in my life that I gave one single fuck about people saying Merry Christmas or not.

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