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Thread: How Low Can We Go? The President Donald Trump Thread, I guess. :(

  1. #3331
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    I'm not asking you to defend anyone. I certainly don't need or want you to defend me. It WOULD be nice though, once in a while, if you let the women in this thread vent and have their feelings without mansplaining to us constantly as if we're incapable of accessing the same information you are. And do not make this about WOC vs. white women. That is not what this is. I saw plenty of WOC upset about this today all over social media, so no.
    Okay.

  2. #3332
    Let them eat cheese flan Nancy's Avatar
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    Please nunu, don't continue to try to gaslight me into parsing Stalinists, Leninists, tankies (tankies? WTF are they?) etc to be sure my accusations are definably correct. You're a commie sympathiser and apologist. You're displaying the circular logic of an NRA buff who sits back and waits for some dumb liberal female like me to make some slight mistake like calling a semi-automatic weapon an automatic weapon, then offers me an invitation to teach me to shoot, then closes in with talking points designed to make me sit down and shut up.

    I seriously recommend that you take some time to think about this.

  3. #3333
    trapped in the worst timeline just owls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncanny hats View Post
    Oh, I totally do. Should I defend the women of color organizing the convention, as organizers, or you? You'd rather I'd shut up, because you really hate Bernie Sanders and Bernie Bros and think he's part of the reason Hillary Clinton lost, and it still hurts that she lost, and it seems like slap in the face to you that they'd invite someone like him to speak. I definitely get it.
    Whether you meant to or not, this reply comes across as very "you're being emotional".

  4. #3334
    Let them eat cheese flan Nancy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncanny hats View Post
    Oh, I totally do. Should I defend the women of color organizing the convention, as organizers, or you? You'd rather I'd shut up, because you really hate Bernie Sanders and Bernie Bros and think he's part of the reason Hillary Clinton lost, and it still hurts that she lost, and it seems like slap in the face to you that they'd invite someone like him to speak. I definitely get it.
    Listen up, Kari. Most of the women who attended the Women's March are racists. Especially the members of Pantsuit Nation, who are nothing more than silly white coffee-klatsching females in safe, inter-racial relationships who would rather die than give up Sunday brunch to join the revolution.

    I am just about ready for some scones. I shall eat them as I tool around in my Benz whilst avoiding painful truths.


  5. #3335
    Administrator Ryan's Avatar
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    Are we not allowed to question or criticize people because they’re POC? Can they not also make odd or tone-deaf decisions? Or is this another game of the oppression Olympics? I’m frankly tired of the attitude that certain people make better decisions or cannot be questioned because they’re more oppressed than me. I don’t care what color or political affiliation the organizers are; I didn’t even bother looking into who the organizers were. It still strikes me as a stupid decision to invite a male politician who, by the way, had a lot of disgustingly misogynistic male followers, as the speaker at a woman’s convention.

  6. #3336
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by just owls View Post
    Whether you meant to or not, this reply comes across as very "you're being emotional".
    I see that. And honestly, I can come off cold and condescending here. The fact most of my lie in communist sympathizer and apologist land, but I'm not a communist. Leftbook was freaking out but for different reasons. With the exception of democratic socialists, they mostly thought he wasn't radical enough. I think the organizers of the Womens' March do good work. I have women friends who disagree. I talked to my partner about and she pointed out that this was only a conversation that women hash out. And that"s probably true.

    I've mostly been silent in the feminism thread, for about a year, and it's carried over into my offline life. I catch a lot of flak for not calling out white feminism. But calling out white bros is easy. I've been calling out people for years. And we all seem to hate bros.

    But, sure, I get it. I am THE condescending bro to y'all.
    Last edited by uncanny hats; 10-13-2017 at 12:34 AM.

  7. #3337
    fire up the quattro SMMY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    Are we not allowed to question or criticize people because they’re POC? Can they not also make odd or tone-deaf decisions? Or is this another game of the oppression Olympics? I’m frankly tired of the attitude that certain people make better decisions or cannot be questioned because they’re more oppressed than me. I don’t care what color or political affiliation the organizers are; I didn’t even bother looking into who the organizers were. It still strikes me as a stupid decision to invite a male politician who, by the way, had a lot of disgustingly misogynistic male followers, as the speaker at a woman’s convention.
    thank you for not participating in the "Woke white men Olympics". Actually from what I can see, it is a solo event here run by one poster who desperately needs to educate us lowly womenfolk. pffft!

  8. #3338
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    I've said it before and I'll say it again: I've been for Bernie for longer than probably any of you have heard of him, before some of you were even born. I have lots of Bernie cred. I even personally know members of his family, have met him, know tons of people who met him.

    But fuck 2010s Bernie. Fuck him 100% for not (imo) doing enough to make sure we wouldn't be living the national nightmare we are currently in. Fuck him for staying in the primaries too long, fuck him for sulking through the Convention, fuck him for not doing enough to stop the left version of the MAGA idiots and their "super delegate" and "emails" and "benghazi" shit. He is not personally responsible for what happened, but with literally just a few hundred thousand votes making the decision in three states, fuck him for not pushing harder for someone with whom he voted the same as something like 94% of the time. I don't feel he did all he could, and THAT'S why he should fuck off. He didn't leave it all on the field to prevent this.

    Fuck him for this.

    Donald Trump is to address the annual conference of an anti-LGBT group which has been classified as a hate group.

    The US president will become the first sitting president to address social conservative activists and elected officials at the Value Voters Summit in Washington DC on Friday.

    President Trump has addressed the event which is hosted by the Family Research Council three times in total and did so last year as the Republican presidential candidate.

    The Family Research Council opposes and actively lobbies against equal rights for LGBT persons. The conservative Christian group campaigns against same-sex marriage, same-sex civil unions, LGBT adoption, abortion, embryonic stell-cell research, pornography and divorce.

    ...

    The Family Research Council opposes civil rights laws to be expanded to encompass sexual orientation and gender identity as illegal bases for discrimination. On top of this, it supports a federal conscience clause which allows medical workers to refuse to deliver certain treatments to their patients, such as abortion, blood transfusion or birth control.

    Back in February 2010, the organisation’s Senior Researcher for Policy Studies, Peter Sprigg, said on NBC's Hardball that gay behaviour should be outlawed and "criminal sanctions against homosexual behaviour" should be enforced.

  9. #3339
    Only knows desire. Perky Compson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncanny hats View Post
    I talked to my partner about and she pointed out that this was only a conversation that women hash out. And that"s probably true.
    You would do well to internalize this. Do you not understand that, as a white man, there is a power dynamic when you swoop in to "call out white feminism", especially in the name of women of color who either aren't here or who are here and are actively asking you to shut up (hiiiiii)? You're never not going to sound like a dude talking over the ladies.

    Do you understand why I, as a white-passing woman of color, don't often swoop in and try to educate men of color on how men of color can be sexist to women of color? Or why I, as a cis person, don't really jump at trans men to remind them that trans women have it worse? It's because it's an intercommunity dispute that you will never get the full context of. You will never understand what it's like to be a woman being talked down to by a man, with an army of lifelong subordination and belittling and degradation backing him up. You will never get to not invoke that. And sometimes it's fine to invoke that! But you have to be so careful of the time and place because if you're going to talk about being woke or being far-left or caring about the feelings of women then you have to be responsible for how you convey the very systems you claim to be against.

    Not to say you can't disagree with women - even about feminism!!! - but for fuck's sake man, look in the mirror and consider what your real motivations are behind defending a controversial white man speaking at a women's conference and then pretending it's about protecting the honor of the WOC organizers when no one in this thread even knew they were women of color.

  10. #3340
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perky Compson View Post
    You would do well to internalize this. Do you not understand that, as a white man, there is a power dynamic when you swoop in to "call out white feminism", especially in the name of women of color who either aren't here or who are here and are actively asking you to shut up (hiiiiii)? You're never not going to sound like a dude talking over the ladies.

    Do you understand why I, as a white-passing woman of color, don't often swoop in and try to educate men of color on how men of color can be sexist to women of color? Or why I, as a cis person, don't really jump at trans men to remind them that trans women have it worse? It's because it's an intercommunity dispute that you will never get the full context of. You will never understand what it's like to be a woman being talked down to by a man, with an army of lifelong subordination and belittling and degradation backing him up. You will never get to not invoke that. And sometimes it's fine to invoke that! But you have to be so careful of the time and place because if you're going to talk about being woke or being far-left or caring about the feelings of women then you have to be responsible for how you convey the very systems you claim to be against.

    Not to say you can't disagree with women - even about feminism!!! - but for fuck's sake man, look in the mirror and consider what your real motivations are behind defending a controversial white man speaking at a women's conference and then pretending it's about protecting the honor of the WOC organizers when no one in this thread even knew they were women of color.
    My real movitations are open. I've conversed with people on FB about this, many of the same people, was specifically defending the choice an organizer, based on speaking fees and draw. But why wouldn't everyone know they were women of color? They're the same organizers as the organizers of the Women's March. Heck, Linda Sarsour gets beat up in the press every day by Democrat for being too radical. How could you not know?


    But also, as you know there's an overarching, if not specific, politics to collective liberation, identity politics, and privilege politics. It's not as loosey goosey as many make it out. Am I not allowed to call out transphobia when a TERF says something particularly TERFy because she's a woman? The answer is no, and if I let it go, then I would be complicit in perpetuating transphobia, Much in the same way if someone does something racist, if I don't call it out, it's privileged of me not to call it out, especially if someone white is doing it, regardless if they are female. There's a lot of talk right now about why white people aren't doing more...and the answer seems to be "unless people of color say it they don't care" which is controversial on its own because all that means is white people refuse to do the work required, because it's not in their best interests to do so.

    If my racist conservative aunt said something racist, I'm not obligated to keep my mout shut because I'm a white dude. I'm obligated to speak out against racism.

    And you're correct, I will never know what it's like to be a woman and talked down to by a man.

  11. #3341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    Thank you.

    Also, nunu, it would behoove you to not try and explain to the women in this thread what the Woman's Movement is or isn't. I know you like to think you're more WokeTM than I am but until you've lived a day in my vagina having body in this Year of Our Lord 2017, do NOT try and explain this shit to me.
    Nunu: Well, actually...


  12. #3342
    Okay, so hold on. A woman hires Bernie Sanders to headline for a women's convention and I'm supposed to be okay with that solely because, omg she's black and he's a cheap hire? And if I'm not okay with it and I say so, it's because I'm racist? NO. The only word that matters in this conversation is WOMAN.

    I'M A WOMAN
    KARI IS A WOMAN
    NANCY IS A WOMAN
    PERKY IS A WOMAN

    And WE as WOMEN (some of whom marched and might want to attend this WOMEN'S conference) think Bernie is a terrible choice. Fuck you if you think that makes us racist. I will not spend another second trying to justify my genuine and completely justifiable response to this to anyone, least of all a condescending person-with-a-penis-and-a-keyboard.
    Last edited by JayPeaches; 10-13-2017 at 04:49 PM.

  13. #3343
    Like, why are we even talking about the race of the person who hired Bernie? WTF does that have to do with ANYTHING

  14. #3344
    Only knows desire. Perky Compson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncanny hats View Post
    My real movitations are open. I've conversed with people on FB about this, many of the same people, was specifically defending the choice an organizer, based on speaking fees and draw. But why wouldn't everyone know they were women of color? They're the same organizers as the organizers of the Women's March. Heck, Linda Sarsour gets beat up in the press every day by Democrat for being too radical. How could you not know?
    Because I've got better shit going on than keeping track of who organizes what march I can't attend because I'm busy working with incarcerated and tribal people? Because I don't care that much about the personalities at play in politics as much as the policies? Because I'm working with my little grassroots anarchist libertarian collective and my time is finite? I didn't know the Women's Conference was even connected to the Women's March, just that it was a big event for women in politics and it was getting headlined by a dude and LOL, that's annoying, it didn't even occur to me to track down the race of the organizers, I only even bothered to form an opinion on it when I came in here and saw you browbeating Kari and Nancy and JP for not knowing what's best for feminism.

    But also, as you know there's an overarching, if not specific, politics to collective liberation, identity politics, and privilege politics. It's not as loosey goosey as many make it out. Am I not allowed to call out transphobia when a TERF says something particularly TERFy because she's a woman? The answer is no, and if I let it go, then I would be complicit in perpetuating transphobia, Much in the same way if someone does something racist, if I don't call it out, it's privileged of me not to call it out, especially if someone white is doing it, regardless if they are female. There's a lot of talk right now about why white people aren't doing more...and the answer seems to be "unless people of color say it they don't care" which is controversial on its own because all that means is white people refuse to do the work required, because it's not in their best interests to do so.
    No, I'm not saying. No one's fucking saying you're "not allowed" so stop pulling that dudeville tripe about how people thinking you're a dick makes you "not allowed" to do something. But we are saying to use tact and sensitivity when you get involved in intercommunity disputes because you white dudes come into discussions on feminism like a fucking wrecking ball shrieking "BUT BERNIE" and using women of color as props to hide behind. You're not calling out racism here, homes, you're freaking out because someone thought a white man was a bad choice for a women's conference for reasons entirely separate from the race of the organizers, which weren't even a consideration for most of the posters in this thread.

    Women - of all races! - are tired of white men using "I'm critiquing white feminism" to put a loincloth on their misogyny. White men jumping in and screaming "white feminism" to make accusations stick was part of "but her emails". "But Benghazi". "But superpredator". Not just for Hillary but for every white (or light-skinned latina) woman the left has turned on. These accusations and worse don't stick to men, and you guys piling into an intercommunity dispute to drive the nail into the post-it note is really, really old.

    If my racist conservative aunt said something racist, I'm not obligated to keep my mout shut because I'm a white dude. I'm obligated to speak out against racism.

    And you're correct, I will never know what it's like to be a woman and talked down to by a man.
    Show me where anyone in this thread said anything close to what a racist conservative aunt would say.

  15. #3345
    generally largely right Dan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPeaches View Post
    Like, why are we even talking about the race of the person who hired Bernie? WTF does that have to do with ANYTHING
    This is why the whole intersectional bullshit sucks.

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