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Thread: How Low Can We Go? The President Donald Trump Thread, I guess. :(

  1. #1486
    Senior Member fluteoftheloon's Avatar
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    Trump's pick to replace Flynn has turned down the offer. Is he the first man with a spine & the good sense to not get involved in this mess? Wonder if this will happen more frequently now after someone is fired/resigns from his cabinet.

    Before I was horrified not one of them simply said no to a job they were clearly unqualified for, now the tide turning might do the trick.
    Last edited by fluteoftheloon; 02-16-2017 at 10:17 PM.

  2. #1487
    Senior Member Jake's Avatar
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    Ugh. So Patreus it is? The irony of someone who gave away National Security secrets... becoming our National Security Advisor. I just fucking can't. Imagine if Hillary had nominated him.

  3. #1488
    in an infinite regress just owls's Avatar
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    ^ And Patreus is still on fucking probation for doing that. He'll be on probation until the end of April.

  4. #1489
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    I like random experts sharing little thoughts like this.

    @SethAbramson

    I was a criminal attorney for many years. Ask any criminal attorney: the president is engaging in _all_ the behaviors a guilty person would.

    here are things a guilty person does (as I know from years as a criminal attorney) that Trump is doing:

    #1 allege a conspiracy against you.

    #2 Raise issues irrelevant to the case to distract attention.

    #3 Avoid speaking of the facts closest in time/space to the crime alleged.

    #4 Cite the support of people unassociated with the allegations to boost credibility

    #5 Make oneself difficult to access for further questioning.

    #6 Displacing blame onto others.

    #7 Using anger/self-righteousness to distract from the allegations.

    #8 Complain about law enforcement.

    #9 Allege the crime was impossible/improbable.

    #10 Misstate facts of the case while (paradoxically) claiming innocence and having nothing to hide.

    #11 Manipulate surrogates (particularly witnesses) to make the case harder to investigate/prosecute and to sow confusion.

    #12 Deny relationships (even provably extant ones) that would make commission of the crime more likely.

    These are the 12 most common signs of a guilty person. Trump exhibits _all of them_.

  5. #1490
    Strangerer Rum 509's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncanny hats View Post
    The GOP is worried that the media is too mean to Trump. They want to know how everyone else feels, too.
    I filled this poll out earlier, the scary part for me was signing my name.

    More than once I've made false connections, but I see a timeline that started with 9/11, that sparked fear of terrorism throughout the country, although the actual danger of any particular place being attacked was no more than before, the capitalization of that fear by GWB to start wars that were already in the planning stages before 9/11, wars for profit and oil. And then the pendulum swung back when "weapons of mass destruction" failed to materialize and the tragedy and truth of the Iraq invasion, through some miracle of journalism, reached the US public and became believable, and an eloquent candidate captured the hopes of US citizens for 8 years. But for whatever reason, racism certainly, but also that political pendulum has now swung back, back farther than before, and we have a bonified sociopath playing the leader, when all he has to do is pander to the right, and claim to be "unbelievably" ... whatever. The only believable word that #45 has said is that *whatever* is unbelievable.

    But the point is, I have been reading all of your posts, and I fear that you are losing faith in our system and our country. And I certainly don't blame you, but, to repeat and old phrase, you must strengthen your resolve. Terrorists are succeeding in scaring all of us, with random murder, and the people who are the most frightened have the worst answers. It is not Muslims or Syrians (god save them) or immigrants who are the worst threat, it is people who fear.

    We're facing a great challenge, fight it by living a generous and happy life. And speak your mind whenever you can. Love you guys, carry on.

  6. #1491
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    My head spun all day yesterday and I keep wondering how this can sustain itself, and this opinion piece might be on track.

    What a Failed Trump Administration Looks Like

    Trump’s White House staff is at war with itself. His poll ratings are falling at unprecedented speed. His policy agenda is stalled. F.B.I. investigations are just beginning. This does not feel like a sustainable operation.

    On the other hand, I have trouble seeing exactly how this administration ends. Many of the institutions that would normally ease out or remove a failing president no longer exist.

    ...

    Everything about Trump that appalls 65 percent of America strengthens him with the other 35 percent, and he can ride that group for a while. Even after these horrible four weeks, Republicans on Capitol Hill are not close to abandoning their man.

    The likelihood is this: We’re going to have an administration that has morally and politically collapsed, without actually going away.

    ...

    First, it means an administration that is passive, full of sound and fury, but signifying nothing. To get anything done, a president depends on the vast machinery of the U.S. government. But Trump doesn’t mesh with that machinery. He is personality-based while it is rule-based. Furthermore, he’s declared war on it. And when you declare war on the establishment, it declares war on you.

    The Civil Service has a thousand ways to ignore or sit on any presidential order. The court system has given itself carte blanche to overturn any Trump initiative, even on the flimsiest legal grounds. The intelligence community has only just begun to undermine this president.

    President Trump can push all the pretty buttons on the command deck of the Starship Enterprise, but don’t expect anything to actually happen, because they are not attached.

    ...

    With each passing day, Trump talks more like Bannon without the background reading.

    ...

    The key currency is not power, it’s flattery.

    The corollary is that Trump is ripe to be played. Give the boy a lollipop and he won’t notice if you steal his lunch.

  7. #1492

  8. #1493
    and it sounds like all our lives Kari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTC View Post
    I plan on getting front row seats at one of the nuclear strike sites whilst drinking tequila straight from the bottle. Figure it will be quicker that way. Not much longer now.
    same. I said I'm going down with this big concrete ship. Maybe it would be a good day to try heroin!

  9. #1494
    Sleeps to dream entropy's Avatar
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    Our local news posted about this on Facebook. I cannot believe all the Trump supporter responses. It's absolutely ridiculous! If it happens, I wonder how many will resist?

  10. #1495
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    They're saying it's false, but like... because they're nothing but lies, how do we know what to believe? Or is that confusion the point?

    It FEELS like a leak to make the press look bad. "Look at MSM. Look at the crap they print." Spicer is screaming how they should have asked, AP is reporting they DID ask. I don't know about you all, but I believe the AP did ask. I don't necessarily believe it's REAL, but it is a story, whether it's a media trap or a true early draft.

    FWIW, mobilizing the Guard is supposedly illegal. The problem comes from IF they were ordered to mobilize, if they followed that order and what would happen between that moment and court orders to stop.... and after a stop order was issued.

    eta: Better phrasing than mine.

    @gmelika
    playbook seems to be:
    1- leak outrageous memo
    2- don't deny
    3- press runs it
    4- wh denies and adds to "fake news"

    trump is destroying press

  11. #1496
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regina Phalange View Post
    They're saying it's false, but like... because they're nothing but lies, how do we know what to believe? Or is that confusion the point?

    It FEELS like a leak to make the press look bad. "Look at MSM. Look at the crap they print." Spicer is screaming how they should have asked, AP is reporting they DID ask. I don't know about you all, but I believe the AP did ask. I don't necessarily believe it's REAL, but it is a story, whether it's a media trap or a true early draft.

    FWIW, mobilizing the Guard is supposedly illegal. The problem comes from IF they were ordered to mobilize, if they followed that order and what would happen between that moment and court orders to stop.... and after a stop order was issued.

    eta: Better phrasing than mine.
    The President can mobilize the National Guard to aid ICE. Just like they were mobilized to enforce school desegregation. They are technically also allowed to arrest people.

    But this National Guard idea has been done before, by Rick Perry.

    But yes. AP, the industry standard is actually fake news and the actual real news is Breitbart. Also, Fox and Friends.

    Quote Originally Posted by entropy View Post
    Our local news posted about this on Facebook. I cannot believe all the Trump supporter responses. It's absolutely ridiculous! If it happens, I wonder how many will resist?
    Definitely zero. They've wanted this for a long, long time.

  12. #1497
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    .

  13. #1498
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncanny hats View Post
    The President can mobilize the National Guard to aid ICE. Just like they were mobilized to enforce school desegregation. They are technically also allowed to arrest people.
    We're both a little right.

    The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) signed on June 18, 1878 by President Rutherford B. Hayes. The purpose of the act – in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807 – is to limit the powers of the federal government in using federal military personnel to enforce domestic policies within the United States. It was passed as an amendment to an army appropriation bill following the end of Reconstruction, and was subsequently updated in 1956 and 1981.

    The Act only specifically applies to the United States Army and, as amended in 1956, the United States Air Force. While the Act does not explicitly mention the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps, the Department of the Navy has prescribed regulations that are generally construed to give the Act force with respect to those services as well. The Act does not apply to the Army National Guard and the Air National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor. The United States Coast Guard, which operates under the Department of Homeland Security, is not covered by the Posse Comitatus Act either, primarily because although the Coast Guard is an armed service, it also has both a maritime law enforcement mission and a federal regulatory agency mission.
    I guess I thought it applied to the Guard as well, but clearly there are exceptions and I wasn't 100% right. Just a little.

  14. #1499
    Sleeps to dream entropy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncanny hats View Post
    Definitely zero. They've wanted this for a long, long time.
    I disagree. The National Guard is diverse group. I was in the Air National Guard. I would definitely having trouble with this.

  15. #1500
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropy View Post
    I disagree. The National Guard is diverse group. I was in the Air National Guard. I would definitely having trouble with this.
    OH! I thought you meant the Trump supporters! Sorry. My reading comprehension was off.

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