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Thread: Fetus Talk/The War on Women

  1. #931
    'If you existed, I'd divorce you.' spyk_'s Avatar
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    There are immediate consequences for the UK though. There is huge support for legalisation in Northern Ireland, however Arlene Foster will not countenance it. The DUP's position propping up May's government gives it sway over government policy, so May has passed off the question of abortion as a 'devolved issue'. Ah, the convenience of devolution to use when you want to worm out of a thorny spot. Alongside the mess of the border question, this only hands those calling for a United Ireland more weight for their cause. I have never in my life been so aware of living history in the present-tense. It's like watching a house of dominoes get set-up and waiting for them to be knocked over.

    Anyway, that's a discussion for another thread. I'm so relieved for the women of Ireland. The No campaign was aggressive and supported by some big-players from within and without Ireland. I didn't realise how lax Irish law was on political campaigning compared to the UK. Until the last minute the referendum was being reported on as a close-call (isn't it to the benefit of news organisations to do that, to keep people watching?) but I think the result was about as unambiguous as you could get.

  2. #932
    Senior Member JAE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyk_ View Post
    There are immediate consequences for the UK though. There is huge support for legalisation in Northern Ireland, however Arlene Foster will not countenance it. The DUP's position propping up May's government gives it sway over government policy, so May has passed off the question of abortion as a 'devolved issue'. Ah, the convenience of devolution to use when you want to worm out of a thorny spot. Alongside the mess of the border question, this only hands those calling for a United Ireland more weight for their cause. I have never in my life been so aware of living history in the present-tense. It's like watching a house of dominoes get set-up and waiting for them to be knocked over.
    Seriously, FUCK Theresa May for disingenuously hiding behind the "it's a devolved matter", particularly given the lack of functioning government in NI. She is happy to let women and gay people within one part of the United Kingdom continue to be second class citizens because it's politically convenient for her to do that. That is despicable, and these types of issues should transcend any short term parliamentary set up. The DUP are monsters (although not the only ones fighting abortion in NI), and she should be judged just as harshly for enabling them for her own selfish reasons. She is a politician with no backbone or moral compass and I am totally disgusted by her and her train wreck of a government as they continue to mine new depths of ineptitude and depravity.

  3. #933
    condemned to wires and hammers ebby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyk_ View Post
    I'm so relieved for the women of Ireland. The No campaign was aggressive and supported by some big-players from within and without Ireland. I didn't realise how lax Irish law was on political campaigning compared to the UK. Until the last minute the referendum was being reported on as a close-call (isn't it to the benefit of news organisations to do that, to keep people watching?) but I think the result was about as unambiguous as you could get.
    There's some rules around having to present balance in all reporting on a referendum - which is what creates that media bubble where everything seems pretty close, but the actual polls say different.

    Links: http://www.bai.ie/en/bai-publishes-u...enda-coverage/
    http://www.bai.ie/en/codes-standards/#al-block-3 [PDF]

    Interesting things like this exist here:

    Objectivity & Impartiality Rules

    21. A news presenter and/or a reporter in a news programme may not express his or her own view on matters that are either of public controversy or the subject of current public debate.

    22. It is an important part of the role of a presenter of a current affairs programme to ensure that the audience has access to a wide variety of views on the subject of the programme or item; to facilitate the expression of contributors opinions –sometimes by forceful questioning; and to reflect the views of those who cannot, or choose not to, participate in content. This being so, a presenter and/or a reporter on a current affairs programme shall not express his or her own views on matters that are either of public controversy or the subject of current public debate such that a partisan position is advocated.
    Which are aimed at avoiding a bubble of just one opinion or side of an argument being presented in a vacuum. But it has its own negative sides as well, where even the most minority view will be given equal time to try and ensure an impartial and balanced approach to the topic.

    Interestingly, I read an article that said exit polls mentioned that only 10% of votes were influenced by the referendum posters. Those posters littered the entire country for the 30 days leading up to the vote, and some were horrible (par for the course for anti-choice/pro-birth campaigns).

    Of course, they have 7 days after the vote to take down their posters. The Yes ones in my area are mostly 100% down already, and were later going up. But I guess the No campaign lost all their volunteers back to the USA / whatever other country they landed in from.
    Last edited by ebby; 05-30-2018 at 10:29 AM.

  4. #934
    Threat level: Bitch in a wheelchair andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy View Post
    That was my fault. I'm sorry andy.
    It's all good! No harm done, just wanted to point it out

  5. #935
    I am not a loony beanstew's Avatar
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    Tory MP Christopher Chope blocks progress of upskirting bill
    A bill backed by the government that would make the taking of upskirt photographs a criminal offence has been delayed after a single Conservative MP objected to it in the Commons, delaying its progress.

    Sir Christopher Chope, the MP for Christchurch since 1997, also used the Commons session on Friday to delay another government-backed bill, which would make it an offence to attack police dogs or horses, or prison officer dogs.

    Chope’s actions on the bill to criminalise what is known as upskirting prompted a furious reaction from some of his fellow Tory MPs, and the government promised

    Both were among a series of private member’s bills being given their second reading. If no MP disagrees they are passed without a vote and can be given a date for their third reading.

    In both cases, when the deputy speaker Lindsay Hoyle read the names of the bills Chope shouted: “Object.” Without sufficient time in the sessions for a proper vote they were both sent back for another attempt on 6 July.
    Before the reading of the bills, another Tory MP, Philip Davies, spoke for two hours without halt. The leader of the Women’s Equality party, Sophie Walker,hinted that Chope could have made himself a political target. “Now looking v closely at Christopher Chope’s constituency of Christchurch, Dorset. If he won’t represent or respect women, there’s one party that will.”
    I hadn't heard of Christopher Chope before Twitter starting tearing him a new one this afternoon but Philip Davies has form for filibustering anything involving womens' rights.

    I was shocked to learn that he's your standard bigoted tory dinosaur.



    Daily Mail readers react.



    I hate everyone.
    Maybe for once, someone will call me "Sir" without adding, "You're making a scene."

  6. #936
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    Susan Collins is not our friend. Sometimes she's not terrible, but being the least worst out of a group of the actual worst isn't a ringing endorsement.



    I'm ok with what this person did.

  7. #937
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    We Americans all know that the GOP is hypocritical and archaic when it comes to women's right, but seeing a lot of it all together really took my breath away.

    Abortion is Immoral, Except When It Comes to My Mistresses


    TIM: Life begins at conception. Pregnancy is a gift from God, which is why I’m cosponsoring this anti-abortion legislation after asking my lover to have an abortion. I’m 65 and she’s 32, but you probably figured that out already.

    SCOTT: When you’re a pro-life, pro-family values Republican doctor running for Congress, you understand the value of human life. I had an affair with a patient and then pressured her to have an abortion. I also fired a gun outside my wife’s bedroom. Who better than me to forcibly take the choice away from American women? I had to send my girlfriend out of state to get her abortion. Liberals are hedonistic monsters and it just makes me so angry!

    ERIC: Being pro-life means that every human life is treasured. As a proud husband and father, I had an affair with my hairdresser, tied her up, took photographs of her while she was naked and then threatened to release the images if she didn’t keep silent about our affair. I also sexually assaulted her. Abortion is immoral, which is why I signed this legislation further restricting it in my already oppressive Family Values state. Women like the hairdresser I abused should not be trusted to make this decision.

    DENNIS: I have never paid for an abortion. My pro-life voting record speaks for itself. We want to live in a society where every child has a chance at life. I sexually abused teenagers while I was their coach and paid them $3.5 million to stay silent. Babies are precious!

    MARK: That totally reminds me of the time I texted sexual images to an underage page. There’s no way to get a teenage boy pregnant, so no hypocrisy on my anti-abortion stance.

    TED: The most effective way to reduce abortion rates is to increase access to birth control. That’s why me and my twelve male colleagues who love life so gosh darn much want to restrict access to birth control. Women should be allowed to perform in porn videos for our pleasure but they should not be trusted to make their own choices.

    STEVE: Being the finance chairman of the pro-life Republican Party has been the greatest honor of my life as I raped and sexually abused multiple women and threatened them with attack dogs. Women should not be trusted to make their own choices.

    ROY: 14-year-old girls are sexy and women should not be trusted to make their own choices.

    JIM: I was named Pro-Life Legislator of the Year and won the Defender of Life award. Everyone deserves an advocate. Except for teenage athletes sexually abused by their coach.

    ROB, COREY, STEVE, ANDREW: No one values women like this wife-beating administration. Women should not be trusted to make their own choices.

    ELLIOT: The reason I work for the Republican National Committee and raise money for the Republican Party is because the GOP is the pro-life party. What is more sacred than life? What is more urgent than paying my Playboy Playmate mistress $1.6 million in eight quarterly installments to buy her silence about our affair and her abortion? And why did Donald Trump’s lawyer Michael Cohen arrange the non-disclosure agreement for me? 1.6 million dollars says you’ll never find out.

    DONALD: Did I pay for multiple abortions? It’s such an interesting question. The important thing is that rich Republican men will always be able to abuse and assault women and also pay for their mistresses’ abortions, even as we take the decision away from women who shouldn’t be trusted to decide for themselves. Only then will America be great again, mostly for Republican men.

  8. #938
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    Women Will Be Punished
    When Roe v. Wade goes down, there will be no way to oppose abortion without supporting the prosecution of those who terminate their pregnancies.

    In the days and weeks following the fall of Roe, countless medical facilities would be shuttered, leaving millions of women with no meaningful access to clinic-based care. It’s also quite probable that women who procured abortions in states that outlawed the procedure would be risking criminal prosecution.

    This is a truth that pro-life advocates like to obscure. But if abortion is, indeed, murder, as so many of its opponents assert, then a woman who obtains an abortion should be guilty of homicide or manslaughter. Some anti-abortion advocates do take this position. Kevin D. Williamson, the National Review writer who was hired and then let go from the Atlantic, explained in 2014 that he was “absolutely willing to see abortion treated like regular homicide under the criminal code.” And in March 2016, when MSNBC’s Chris Matthews asked then-presidential candidate Donald Trump about what should happen to women who get abortions, Trump said, there “has to be some form of punishment.”

    ...

    In the pre-Roe era, an illegal abortion was often a dangerous “back-alley” operation, one conducted in unsanitary conditions at great risk to the woman undergoing the procedure. Large public hospitals had “septic abortion wards” to treat women who got potentially deadly infections following botched abortions. Some women tried to self-terminate by penetrating themselves with knitting needles or coat hangers; others swallowed turpentine and bleach. In 1965, illegal abortion accounted for 17 percent of all deaths stemming from pregnancy and childbirth. Today, in the U.S. that number is about zero percent.

    While the landscape has changed dramatically in the past 45 years, there are still sizable chunks of the country where Roe is effectively dead letter. Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, North Dakota, South Dakota, West Virginia, and Wyoming each have only one abortion clinic. All of those states, as well as many others, impose strict burdens, like waiting periods and counseling requirements, that make the procedure difficult to obtain. As of 2017, 58 percent of women of reproductive age lived in states that severely restricted access to abortion.

    ...

    Anti-abortion groups have also devised schemes to punish those who help women terminate their pregnancies. Donna Crane, director of government relations at NARAL Pro-Choice America, noted that congressional Republicans have introduced a bill that would criminalize the transportation of a minor across state lines without her parents’ consent to obtain a legal abortion. Any individual who does so may be imprisoned for a year. (The bill was sponsored by Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, who is considered one of the most moderate Republicans in the House of Representatives.) Texas has already passed a law that prohibits anyone from helping a woman obtain a second-trimester abortion—by, for instance, driving her to a clinic. And in 2014, a jury convicted Jennifer Whelan for purchasing abortion pills online for her 16-year-old daughter, who wished to terminate her unplanned pregnancy. A judge sentenced Whelan to prison.

    Crane told me these tactics echo those used by prosecutors in the pre-Roe era. While few women were imprisoned for getting abortions in those days, prosecutors would often “snag the woman and force her to say everybody who was involved with the process,” Crane said. “They put these women in impossible situations and aggressively flip them.” Prosecutors could pursue a similar strategy if Roe were overturned. They might not charge a woman who self-terminated, but they could threaten her with dire consequences unless she named everyone who helped her—a friend who directed her toward black-market misoprostol, or a parent who helped her as she miscarried.

    Talcott Camp, deputy director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s Reproductive Freedom Project, agreed. “People who assist in the commission of a crime are generally criminally liable,” she told me. “You can’t drive somebody to the appointed spot for some criminal activity and not be liable.” In a post-Roe world, the family and friends of women who self-terminate would face investigation and criminal charges. States could also enshrine the victimhood model into law, passing legislation that bars the prosecution of women for self-termination but allows the prosecution of those who don’t assist the police in identifying those who helped her procure the procedure. “The idea that that’s not punishing women,” Camp said, “is ludicrous.”

    As the cases of Patel, Jones, McCormack, and others illustrate, prosecutors could bring any number of charges against women who self-terminate. Even if lawmakers decided not to further criminalize DIY abortions, prosecutors could charge women for murder, infanticide, or lesser crimes like the unauthorized practice of medicine. We might not see prosecutions skyrocket if Roe falls—but we would, without a doubt, see an uptick in the number of arrests of women who self-induce. Prosecutions would become commonplace if not ubiquitous, a recurring reminder of the fate that befalls women who attempt to end their pregnancies illegally. Priscilla Smith, a clinical lecturer at Yale Law School, told Irin Carmon, “No matter what the national anti-abortion movement says, it’s not up to them—it’s up to local prosecutors who are trying to make a name for themselves … [and] the movement sets the tone by calling it murder.”
    Very grim.

    I'm not entirely sure Roe will be overturned in its entirety, but I feel that it's almost guaranteed that it'll be rendered effectively useless. Allow outrageous restrictions, hurdles, punishments, then it's effectively outlawed without taking for responsibility for actually overturning it.

  9. #939
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    Has anyone else been screaming into the void the last week or two? And with SCOTUS "respecters of precedent" throwing out opinions that signal they're not really sticking with that... It's not good. It's bad. It's really bad. It might be unfixably bad.

  10. #940
    Senior Member Jezebelle's Avatar
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    Sure is! Im in Atlanta... which is unfortunately in Georgia! While we've protested strongly dressed as Handmaids, this train ran right through us and became law. Also our governor Brian Kemp basically cheated to get his job and this is what he went and did within a few short months.

    Maybe I'm hysterical but the Handmaid thing doesnt seem too far off down here.
    chillin in kyoto grand with my man Skrill

  11. #941
    Remember. Steve SFM's Avatar
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    It might be unfixable. And, it might not be.

    The culture Cold War has become hot. And all of a sudden, #sexstrike makes sense. Not literally, but emotionally. Maybe Alyssa has a point. We need to fight, and big showy gestures can be a part of that. But we need to fight.

    Let’s get to work.*



    *Hey, everybody! What did I just quote?
    Last edited by Steve SFM; 05-15-2019 at 11:58 PM.
    At my core, I think we're gonna be OK.

    Barack Hussein Obama

  12. #942
    worth a million in prizes .chris's Avatar
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    I cannot believe the speed in which they are passing all these abortion bans at the state level. I am shocked. I didn't think I could be shocked anymore. This is terrifying!

  13. #943
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    It's just so gross that these assholes (with few exceptions) really don't actually have objections to abortion. It's just a chess piece for them. Something to rile the stupids in their base. It's not a genuine conviction but a convenient tool.

    There's a good piece on today's episode of The Daily for those who listen. Sometimes their stuff is a little too both sides, like their last abortion piece, but it goes into the whole history of the anti-choice people basically being conjured into existence because the GOP figured out the stupids were so easily manipulated.

  14. #944
    Insert something clever here iamstilljamiepoo's Avatar
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    Fucking Missouri, too.
    I hate everyone.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.ae88ce69d115

    Missouri’s Republican-controlled House voted 110-44 Friday to pass the bill and sent it to Republican Gov. Mike Parson for his approval. Parson, who has vowed to make Missouri “one of the strongest pro-life states in the country,” is expected to sign it into law.

    HB 126, known as the “Missouri Stands for the Unborn Act,” would ban abortions before many women know they are pregnant, with no exceptions for rape or incest.

    The vote came just hours before the state’s legislative session was set to end, and was preceded by an emotional debate in the House, where some lawmakers recounted their own experiences with abortion. Aside from some outbursts from spectators in the gallery and quiet sobbing that appeared to come from the House floor, the chamber was largely silent during the arguments.

  15. #945
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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