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Thread: US Elections 2020 - These little earthquakes. Here we go again.

  1. #316
    Gone Andromeda grapefruit_is_winning's Avatar
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    I can't even think about it. Warren and Buttigieg are my faves but I am so skeptical about the possibility of positive outcomes here that I can't watch or read anything about any of this. Americans want a celebrity, not a thinker, not a doer, not a leader, not a person with a moral compass. A belligerent, dim, lying & utterly corrupt pile of dog shit is A-Okay as long as it sends provocative Yo Mama tweets. Between that fucking depressing reality and the not in the least surprising reality that Congress has done LITERALLY NOTHING to prevent social media manipulation by foreign entities, it feels a bit hopeless to me honestly.

  2. #317
    Senior Member Puddles's Avatar
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    ^ Don't even get me started on the House Democrats. Nancy Pelosi's defensive-loser posture has been deeply disappointing and uninspiring, if not exactly surprising.

  3. #318
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    These people dropping out already must be doing even more poorly than I thought. Hanging on till Iowa or NH seems like a better strategy if you can make it. David Plouffe (who ran Obama's campaign) was on Pod Save America yesterday and talked about how historically the eventual nominee wasn't doing well in early polls. Carter, Clinton, Kerry, Obama. That until votes are actually cast, you don't know how you're truly doing. I mean, if you can't afford to drive around to all the farms in Iowa and all the ... well, NH is weird (ocean, mountains, farming, small cities), but all the various points of interest in NH, then I guess you have to leave, but I'd try to still be hanging on because you don't know if those above you are gonna implode.

  4. #319
    entertaining in its outrage Volta's Avatar
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    You need donors and you need to acquire new ones all the time or you're just wasting the money of the people you're tapping out. It's so expensive to make it to Iowa and it shouldn't be that way. Plus you need voters. Mayor Pete is averaging %5 in every democratic poll. Anything lower than that even this early seems like you're in it for a lot of "extra" reasons than being the nominee.
    Who said you were evil?
    My SAT scores.

  5. #320
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    Hey everyone pour one out for state gop committees that have canceled their primaries. Great idea when your candidate is facing impeachment. Might have been smarter to keep your primary going just in case trump was unavailable or completely unpalatable. The optics for free and fair elections were bad enough but your own hubris might have saddled you with the worse possible candidate. Cheers.

  6. #321
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    The fuck is this shit?



    Elizabeth Warren chose to become Bernie Sanders' opponent in a race that guarantees one winner. Her campaign should not be handled with kid gloves for the sake of unity.

    I have opinions about whether Warren should have entered the race when she knew in advance that Sanders would run (yes she did), but they're actually tangential. My point here is that Warren's decision was guaranteed to disunify progressives, broadly defined. That was her wager.

    Strange to then respond to political critiques of Warren from Sanders' base, which to any astute observer was clearly not going anywhere, with appeals to unity. Warren said to hell with unity already. If you're mad at Sanders and his base about it you're not making sense.

    Also all presidential candidates warrant the closest possible scrutiny, and the replies here suggesting that Warren should be exempt from that on account of her gender are way more demeaning to women than any critique I've leveled at her campaign.
    I mean, if you like Bernie and don't like Warren, that's fine. But this stuff is constant and so gross. It's not "Bernie's turn." When we pick someone based on their turn (Gore, Kerry), it ends disastrously for us. I mean, god forbid you don't like Bernie because of his identity politics stance or his 2016 behavior. Or maybe you do like him but just like Warren MORE. If Bernie can't beat Warren, he can't beat Trump. PS he can't beat Trump very easily.

  7. #322
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regina Phalange View Post
    The fuck is this shit?





    I mean, if you like Bernie and don't like Warren, that's fine. But this stuff is constant and so gross. It's not "Bernie's turn." When we pick someone based on their turn (Gore, Kerry), it ends disastrously for us. I mean, god forbid you don't like Bernie because of his identity politics stance or his 2016 behavior. Or maybe you do like him but just like Warren MORE. If Bernie can't beat Warren, he can't beat Trump. PS he can't beat Trump very easily.
    I mean, it's an election, tbh. The hardest part for me as someone who is more pro-Warren than Sanders is that Neera Tanden/Nate Silver contingent of so-called "Clinton supporters" who are 100% way worse about this than whoever this person is. Nate Silver pointed out the other day that Sanders supporters are more open to supporting other candidates while the so-called "Clinton supporters" hate Bernie Sanders and the Sanders campaign should thought about prior to running. Can't appeal to them? FUCK YOU.

    Do I really want to somewhere in the vicinity of the least open-minded supporters? Also, what's the deal supporterism? Why are we looking at supporters instead of the candidate's policy? Sure building a coalition is part of it. We'd hope coalition built on policy and whatever the hell this is.

    This is where we're at. Sanders and Warren are close friends and closer in politics than any other pair up running, people still are like Warren/Castro 2020 or Warren/Buttigieg as if Sanders is invisible or that Castro and Buttigieg are closer to Warren in policy than Sanders.

    And you are absolutely right , "Their turn politics" are disastrous.

    Meagan Day writes for Jacobin. They're openly against Warren and they will probably always be against Warren, for a couple reasons: Jacobin is a democratic socialist periodical. Warren identifies as a capitalist. It's like Fox News backing Bush in 2000. Jacobin even hates the rest of the left. They only care about democratic socialism. They're not really worth getting takes from most of the time.

    That said, if you don't like Sanders, but love Warren and some super-moderate, every Sanders supporter is going to scratch their head. Both the center and far left have conspiracy theories about how once Sanders and Biden are out of the way Warren is going to drift back to the middle. Which I think is insulting to Warren. She's a woman of character and both the center and far left should shut up.

    That said, the person who is known for going far-left and drifting to the center (because that's the nature of democratic socialism) is Bernie Sanders. And that's thing that neither the far left or center wants to talk about. Why? because the center is addicted to hating Sanders and the far left is addicted to loving him. So much so that if they don't get what they want, I suspect they'll wreck everything with a third party candidate.

  8. #323
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Pete Buttigieg was interviewed about what he offers

    Buttigieg, talking to reporters on his Iowa bus tour, said he cares about results.

    “She and I are after the same goals,” he said of Warren. “But her pitch has a lot more to do with fighting — she’s more interested in the fighting part of it. I’m more interested in outcomes.”
    Astounds.

  9. #324
    megaphone to my chest MikeEP's Avatar
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    He's talking about specifically about his messaging. He's not saying he cares about outcomes and she doesn't.

  10. #325
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEP View Post
    He's talking about specifically about his messaging. He's not saying he cares about outcomes and she doesn't.
    I know what it says. It's still trash.

  11. #326
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    So. It seems that Bernie's docs said his chest pains were a heart attack and not just chest pains.

    Given his age and now this... does it change things? SHOULD it change things?

    I mean, we have the most unhealthy slob in office now (and there was a great thread on twitter today where someone zoomed in on that horrible pic a few years ago of him and his terrible taco bowl and behind him were dozens of packages of UK sudafed, and sudafed abuse can cause delusions and paranoia). So clearly enough R voters don't care about health for it to matter to them, but should it for us on the left? Would it be better if he had been more upfront about it? If it was something that happened 5 years, even 5 months ago?

  12. #327
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regina Phalange View Post
    So. It seems that Bernie's docs said his chest pains were a heart attack and not just chest pains.

    Given his age and now this... does it change things? SHOULD it change things?

    I mean, we have the most unhealthy slob in office now (and there was a great thread on twitter today where someone zoomed in on that horrible pic a few years ago of him and his terrible taco bowl and behind him were dozens of packages of UK sudafed, and sudafed abuse can cause delusions and paranoia). So clearly enough R voters don't care about health for it to matter to them, but should it for us on the left? Would it be better if he had been more upfront about it? If it was something that happened 5 years, even 5 months ago?
    I mean Biden has had two brain surgeries and a pulmonary embolism. I know he's different because, well because.

    Speaking of Bernie, I think this tweet makes the most sense when it comes to Bernie Sanders:


  13. #328
    Let them eat cheese flan Nancy's Avatar
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    The standard Bernie bro response to my or anyone else's posts in my local Indivisible Group maintaining that Elizabeth Warren might be a better messenger than Bernie or any of the other candidates:

    "If by 'better' you mean 'richer and whiter' than yes, you would be correct. Otherwise she's done decently well to consistently offer about 70% of whatever Bernie is offering."

    ^It took me two full days to get past my anger and not blame Bernie for his followers' never-ending condescension. I sincerely wish him well and I hope he makes a full recovery soon.

  14. #329
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    (which is apparently the most common response)

  15. #330
    Senior Member Puddles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy View Post
    The standard Bernie bro response to my or anyone else's posts in my local Indivisible Group maintaining that Elizabeth Warren might be a better messenger than Bernie or any of the other candidates:

    "If by 'better' you mean 'richer and whiter' than yes, you would be correct. Otherwise she's done decently well to consistently offer about 70% of whatever Bernie is offering."

    ^It took me two full days to get past my anger and not blame Bernie for his followers' never-ending condescension. I sincerely wish him well and I hope he makes a full recovery soon.
    I didn't realize that Bernie Sanders was poor and black

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