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Thread: US Elections 2020 - These little earthquakes. Here we go again.

  1. #61
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    Guys, I don't know if this is good or bad, smart thinking or desperation, but I got a letter from the DNC today. Asking politely for money and a whole bunch of questions in a survey. If they're thinking like a team a year and a half out... well, yay Tom Perez? I've gotten individual mailers, but nothing from the DNC itself. Ever.

    I don't know if I should fill it out. Do you think they REALLY care what a bluest-blue state voter who isn't going to give them money cares about? Like is this a sincere request to understand the base or solely a money making thing?

  2. #62
    megaphone to my chest MikeEP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyland View Post
    My understanding is that Sanders supporters voted for Clinton at higher rates than Clinton supporters voted for Obama in 2008.
    I’d like to see a source on that if there is one. It seems unlikely to me but I could definitely be wrong.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Nick's Avatar
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    Even if they personally voted (I know many did not, but I'm sure many others did), the problem was the general anti-Clinton hysteria they created. The real Bernie-bros are likely to be highly engaged voters who picked Clinton in the end out of necessity (while rambling endlessly on social media about holding their nose while they did it), but they fed into a narrative that no doubt depressed turnout among on-the-fence young voters who probably just didn't vote at all because they suddenly weren't going to get free college. Her margins were so slim in all of the decisive states, we'll never know if endless blathering about her paid speeches (gasp!) made the difference in the end. But we know it didn't help.

  4. #64
    Gone Andromeda grapefruit_is_winning's Avatar
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    Here are a couple of articles that give a substantive data-based analysis on this issue. It's actually a really complex question with a lot of factors. A data science PhD candidate could easily write a dissertation on this topic:

    This article supports the hypothesis that Sanders did NOT cost Clinton the election: http://www.centerforpolitics.org/cry...he-presidency/

    From the article (abbreviated):


    This article supports the hypothesis that Sanders DID cost Clinton the election (although I think it must be said that this article takes a very simplistic view, which rests on the assumption that the 20% of Sanders supporters who did not vote for Clinton would have voted for her if Sanders had not run in the primary): https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sand...lection-654320

    Actually, the headline on this one is kind of clickbait, because the article concludes: "While much was made of the so-called Bernie-or-bust phenomenon, the number of Sanders supporters who crossed party lines to vote for Trump in 2016 may not be that unusual. A 2010 study in Public Opinion Quarterly found that in the 2008 election 25 percent of those who voted for Clinton in the Democratic primary ended up voting for Republican John McCain, rather than Barack Obama, in the general election."

  5. #65
    Vilest of the vile Homogenik's Avatar
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    It's funny how people consider voters as stereotypes. As if they were members of a religion, and not of all walks of life and sensitive to an evolving world. As if the people Sanders attracted at the time would have rushed to vote for an institutional juggernaut. It's just weird to me that people would study this with such strange, nonsensical hypotheses. I know the forum here had turned into a Clinton lovefest, but the tireless desire to keep blaming her failure on others, even Sanders or his supporters, is just cringemaking. If the Dems want to win the next one, they better find a good message, first of all. "I'm with her" is crap. It's supposed to be about the people and the country, not about separate camps or the candidate personally. "Look At Me", "Vote for Me, Please!", "I'm in This Camp, Excluding You!" are not recommended slogans.

  6. #66
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    Sanders Asks Campaign Surrogates To ‘Engage Respectfully’ With Democratic Rivals

    In the Saturday email to over 100 campaign surrogates obtained by HuffPost, Sanders also preemptively admonished supporters against “bullying and harassment of any kind.”

    “As we engage with our opponents in the Democratic primary, we will forcefully present our views and defend ourselves against misrepresentations,” he wrote. “But, let us do our very best to engage respectfully with our Democratic opponents ― talking about the issues we are fighting for, not about personalities or past grievances. I want to be clear that I condemn bullying and harassment of any kind and in any space.”

    Sanders’ missive is an early effort to short-circuit ad hominem attacks or bullying that is undertaken in his name.

    During the 2016 presidential campaign, Sanders and his supporters endured criticism from backers of Hillary Clinton for the online vitriol they alleged was directed at them by some of his partisans. Some of Sanders critics renewed calls for him to exercise greater control over his supporters since he kicked off his 2020 bid last Tuesday.
    Well, it's a start. At least now we can say "Hey, Bernie himself said stop being a dick." If he's sincere, this statement actually is meaningful but if it's just covering his ass, he can fuck right off. I used to be able to trust that he was sincere in saying stuff like this.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Regina Phalange View Post
    Sanders Asks Campaign Surrogates To ‘Engage Respectfully’ With Democratic Rivals



    Well, it's a start. At least now we can say "Hey, Bernie himself said stop being a dick." If he's sincere, this statement actually is meaningful but if it's just covering his ass, he can fuck right off. I used to be able to trust that he was sincere in saying stuff like this.
    Meh. Too little too late, IMO. After all the BS about speaking fees and the shady ways the Bernie campaign ran his primary campaign, I'm so over him. Jeff Weaver is a disgusting campaign manager (and a pretty disgusting human being). He's the left's side of Paul Manafort from what I can see.
    Last edited by Mr. Orange Clouds; 02-25-2019 at 05:56 PM.

  8. #68
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    I thought his daughter in law ran his campaign? I know this because I know her and while I might not have seen her in 25 years, I hate her fucking guts and she might make my top 10 people I'd punch in the face in a PG version of The Purge.

    Anyway, genuine remorse for the chaos he sowed or just pretending?




    Oh, where are HIS tax returns?

  9. #69
    Find a way to get in the way. MTC's Avatar
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    So I can come in here and say that the bullshit Sanders pulled in 2016 contributed to the fiasco sitting in the White House now without getting my face ripped off? That's a relief.
    And the ghosts that we knew will flicker from view
    And we'll live a long life

  10. #70
    And in the evening it's. . . Andrea's Avatar
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  11. #71
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    Not that you have to memorize them all because THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE. And a VP nom, I guess. I suspect the VP nom will be someone who isn't running.

    I will vote for anyone besides Trump. But I realllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly don't want to have to vote for Biden or Bernie. Biden is... Obama brought out his best and even then it was a rough go. Bernie still hasn't released his taxes, nor promised to release them to the best of my knowledge. And if he promised I believe that as much as I believed it the last time he promised and didn't. I could maybe look past that but then he voted against sanctions against Russia. It's probably nothing and there could be a good reason but... I don't have a lot of energy to keep giving him the benefit of the doubt. I do believe both of them would have the interest of the US ahead of personal gain which is why I would vote for them in the general, but I am not even considering them for the primaries. If it comes down to the two of them in a year I will skip primary voting.

  12. #72
    worth a million in prizes .chris's Avatar
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    I donated some money to Pete Buttigieg's campaign yesterday. I love him so much. I know he is a long shot. I just wanted to make sure he can get into the debates. They need a certain number of unique small donors to qualify.

    I feel similarly about Biden and Sanders. Obviously I will vote for them if they win the primary.

  13. #73
    Vilest of the vile Homogenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea View Post
    He seems like a good choice. He's young, but has gravitas. He's not tied to a doctrine or position. He seems energetic and his voice is clear, calm and strong. And Trump seems to fear him.

  14. #74
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    I really like Pete. I don't know if he has a chance. But I like him.


  15. #75
    Senior Member SloppyJane's Avatar
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    I'm strangely attracted to him.
    Living in my own personal Cornwall bubble

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