View Poll Results: The beekeeper or American Doll Posse

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  • The Beekeeper

    62 57.41%
  • American Doll Posse

    46 42.59%
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Thread: Which album do you like better - TBK or ADP?

  1. #31
    balletic and glacial Jonathan's Avatar
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    Beekeeper, without a single doubt. I HATE ADP's sound (production and instrumentation), the songs just don't breathe, and the only songs I still listen to off of ADP are Smokey Joe, Dragon and Roosterspur Bridge.

    With The Beekeeper, on the other hand, you have syrupy but bearable production on tracks with a lot of potential, other excellent tracks and a handful of track you can leave aside - still better than the 90% shit on ADP.

  2. #32
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    ADP, while the production/ mixing could be better, there are better songs on the album. ADP is more sincere, it doesn't pretend to be more than it is. TBK is a light puff, ADP has more spine. I find it interesting that now after a few years people seem to prefer TBK.

  3. #33
    ForumBound EnjoyJoy's Avatar
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    Beekeeper Playlist > American Doll Posse > The Beekeeper

    So, I'm gonna vote for The Beekeeper. Parasol, Jamaica, Martha's....

    Also, this album beats UTP in terms of songs that didn't make the album, Garlands and Not David Bowie not making it here are worse than Honey getting kicked off UTP.

  4. #34
    Beekeeper (gasping at myself). It has aged much better than I would have expected. The songwriting is MUCH stronger. There are definitely songs to be kicked to the curb, but I think it stands the test of time better than ADP. The songs shine through the production eventually.

    ADP - I enjoy, it's fun, but the production KILLS the songs. Some have balls, but they've all been asphyxiated. As someone said, the air is collapsed out of them. I always cringe when I think of how wonderful BEAUTY OF SPEED could have been with the right arrangement and production.

    And...this is SO first three albums...but I wish Tori would bring her breaths back into the production mix instead of clipping them, at least for one album.

  5. #35
    Militia of the Mind toriMODE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mumblefuck View Post

    And...this is SO first three albums..
    Not sure what you mean by this...

  6. #36
    flayed on the marble stairs
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    I feel like The Beekeeper is a lot more sincere and less superficial than American Doll Posse. I'd choose the former, despite the horrid cover .

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by toriMODE View Post
    Not sure what you mean by this...
    I should have said first four albums - as I now recall that iieee is a prime example of breaths being so clear in the recording. Her breathing in iieee is amazing and adds a raw, organic quality. Most recording artists clip or remove breathing from the audio completely, but Tori kept it heavily and purposefully in the production back in the early days. I wish she'd include it again - ADP would have benefited greatly from it.

    I hope that makes more sense. I'd have to re-listen to the early albums again to provide better examples - which isn't such a bad idea.

  8. #38
    Lyrical acuity and mum-smarts menju56's Avatar
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    I miss the breath too! It sounds weird but it's such an integral part of making the record sound... I don't know, closer, more raw, more 'live' maybe. Like on "Big Wheel," each line has no breath around it. So it has the effect of sounding like she sang each line on its own and then it was pasted together. I have to conclude that that was simply the effect she was going for on the album, because she's used breath and pedal noises etc prominently on early records.

    As for the original question, I can't say definitively which I prefer. I always liked both but the production choices on ADP aren't always to my taste. Sometimes they work but a lot of the time the songs sound airless, too loud, not enough dynamics. TBK, meanwhile, is quite airy and light and pleasant - but doesn't possess the energy, edge, or vigour of some of ADP. Song-wise, both have their share of fine material and both have their share of pleasingly experimental, unusual stuff for Tori ("Witness," "Teenage Hustling"). The length of both doesn't bother me.

  9. #39
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    American Doll Posse, because I think if it had been produced like SLG (New Age, Heart of Gold) and had Adrian Belew on guitar it would have been considered one of her best. I think a lot of career highlights are on that album (Bouncing off Clouds, Smokey Joe, Dragon, Beauty of Speed, Code Red, Almost Rosey) which could have been as respected as anything from SW/Pele/Choirgirl if they had been produced properly.

  10. #40
    'twas mbc 'twas kollins Michael Michael's Avatar
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    Really Genuinely Awesome Songs on The Beekeeper:
    Parasol
    The Beekeeper

    Really Genuinely Awesome Songs on ADP:
    Bouncing Off Clouds
    Beauty of Speed
    Almost Rosey
    Smokey Joe
    Dragon

    Advantage: ADP

    Bad Production Aspects of TBK:
    90% of the album

    Bad Production Aspects of ADP:
    The awful guitar is distracting on some (ok, many) songs

    Advantage: ADP

    'I'm embarrassed to be a fan right now' Songs on TBK:
    Jamaica Inn
    Sleeps With Butterflies
    Ribbons Undone
    Cars and Guitars
    Ireland
    Hoochie Woman

    'I'm embarrassed to be a fan right now' songs on ADP:
    Yo George
    Teenage Hustling
    Programmable Soda

    Advantage: ADP

    I really am amazed when I hear people talk about how, despite the bad production, "there's some wonderful songs on TBK" or "the songwriting is really strong." Our tastes and opinions must differ wildly! I think the songwriting on TBK is one of its biggest problems; the lyrics are so clunky and, well, bad (imho). Meanwhile, I hear people talk about Mr Bad Man and Secret Spell like they're wretched lyrical abominations and I think they're actually rather clever, well-written songs, much much stronger than Sleeps With Butterflies or whatever.

  11. #41
    Senior Member HumptyDumpty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menju56 View Post
    I miss the breath too! It sounds weird but it's such an integral part of making the record sound... I don't know, closer, more raw, more 'live' maybe. Like on "Big Wheel," each line has no breath around it. So it has the effect of sounding like she sang each line on its own and then it was pasted together. I have to conclude that that was simply the effect she was going for on the album, because she's used breath and pedal noises etc prominently on early records.
    I agree, and I do miss that rawness. I also think that's why I love "Comfort and Joy" so much, cuz her voice is so bare. You can even hear it cracking in certain parts. Obviously each artist uses their instrament differently, but some of my favorite vocalists (tori included) use every single aspect of their voices in songs, right down to the breaths they take.

  12. #42
    It's near-impossible to decide. In fact I can't decide based purely on the studio albums. The Beekeeper has more songs that I really specifically dislike (Ribbons Undone!) while ADP has no songs that I just hate. That being said ADP has way more songs that I couldn't care less about; they're not horrible but I have no desire to hear them.

    I'm going to bring the Tours into this because it does mean something. The type of album she produces seems to directly affect what type of Tour she puts on and the ADP tour was one of the best tours of all (I would say it's THE best but I never got to see any of the pre-2005 tours). The Summer of Sin tour was mostly just lame (And how crappy that she used that name for TBK and then came out with AATS. That would have made so much more sense for the US leg of the AATS tour).

    So I chose ADP, if only because the aftermath was very enjoyable whereas TBK was a letdown both in my CD player and during promotion.

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by HumptyDumpty View Post
    I agree, and I do miss that rawness. I also think that's why I love "Comfort and Joy" so much, cuz her voice is so bare. You can even hear it cracking in certain parts. Obviously each artist uses their instrament differently, but some of my favorite vocalists (tori included) use every single aspect of their voices in songs, right down to the breaths they take.
    I've been saying this since I first heard TBK and ADP. When she started taking out the breathing sounds she started going downhill. Scarlet's Walk was the last album to really feature it and even then it was downplayed on a lot of songs. I think Strange Little Girls was the last album that it was really strong on a few tracks (Real Men, '97 Bonnie & Clyde, Enjoy the Silence, Time, I'm Not in Love, I Don't Like Mondays)

    For me it makes the song feel more genuine. I can sing along because I know where she's breathing and it just sounds more realistic. Take it away and it's very awkward and fake sounding; like in pop songs where you could never actually sing along because they cut together the chorus and it's so long you need to take like 9 breaths.
    Last edited by SageBrushFire; 08-03-2010 at 11:09 AM.

  14. #44
    Senior Member Ms_Zebra1984's Avatar
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    Definitely ADP. The Beekeeper is my least favorite album of Tori's

  15. #45
    I'm a sensible girl GirlForPele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlForPele View Post
    Well since The Beekeeper is one of the worst things I've ever heard in my life, and American Doll Posse is my 3rd favorite Tori album...I picked ADP.
    Wow, how times have changed...I apparently wrote this in July 2010 and I would definitely not consider ADP to be my 3rd favorite Tori album, WTF! Though I do still like it and I do still hate the Beekeeper.
    When pianos try to be guitars...out of my black and white world

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