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Thread: The DNC Deathwatch Thread

  1. #16
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    In which Bill Clinton challenges Wal-Mart to open a store in Libya.

  2. #17
    fire up the quattro SMMY's Avatar
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    Didn't know where else to put it, but Ashley Judd is running for McConnell's seat in Kentucky. Official announcement should come soon.

  3. #18
    Remember. Steve SFM's Avatar
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    I like this. Not because OMG Hot Movie Star, and not even because it would keep her from making any more shitty thrillers. I like it because, unlike most Ds, she's a genuine progressive. And she's really fucking smart (Masters' from Harvard). It's thought that her environmentalism - specifically, her opposition to strip mining in a coal state - might be a stumbling block. But she'd be a tenacious candidate, and she'd have plenty of money behind her.

    Besides, her winning the seat would be a real poke in the eye to the righties who consistently natter on about Evil Hollywood.

  4. #19
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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  5. #20
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    This article made me feel like this thread needed to be bumped. I don't agree with it entirely, but I agree with a lot of it. I'm super left, but I understand that in the real world there has to be a disconnect between ideals and reality of governing. And I'm really tired of the "Bernie would have won" crowd. They. Don't. Stop.

    But the large Bernie Bro/Zealot/Never Hillary cult made it clear that anyone who didn’t worship at the altar of Saint Bernie Sanders wasn’t a “real progressive” and therefore wasn’t worthy of their support unless they cleared an impossibly high bar. And they joined forces with an already established wing of far left purists for whom any Dem politician who rates less than 100% in their purity scale of select issues is a “neoliberal” and therefore justifies them to throw away their votes on crackpot third-party candidates so they can preen to everyone how “radical” or “revolutionary” they supposedly are and to try and shame people who consistently vote Democrat as ignorant and brainwashed sheeple. Yeah, I’m brainwashed for realizing that a system that often requires some level of compromise to move things forward renders 100% ideological purity useless and subsequently voting for whichever candidate in best positioned to effectively advance the issues I care about in a given election is the most prudent option... Both parties ARE NOT THE SAME. Every politician takes corporate money because that’s the cost of doing business in American politics — even Bernie does — but only ONE Senator stood up to confront his colleague for the rights and safety of all Americans this week, and it WASN’T BERNIE SANDERS, IT WAS COREY BOOKER.

    ...

    And don’t think it hasn’t been noticed that the people who have been most savagely attacked for failing your purity tests and not worshipping at the altar of Lord Sanders have been people of color and women. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) “betrayed the progressive movement” because she endorsed Hillary Clinton after the primaries were over. Attorney General Loretta Lynch was an “obstructionist pig” because she literally bumped into Bill Clinton at an airport... Rep. John Lewis (D-GA) “sold out to the establishment” because he didn’t see Bernie amongst the 250,000 that went to the March on Washington. And then there was the spectacle of Sanders Zealots repeatedly booing, heckling, and shouting over Black, Brown, and women speakers during the first day of the Democratic National Convention — including Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) as he spoke about civil rights, a living wage, voting rights, and equity in education.

    ...

    ...75% of Black voters nationwide chose Hillary Clinton over Sanders and 65% of Latinx voters did the same. That really angered his cult, who made it clear that if Sanders didn’t get the nomination then fuck civil rights, fuck gender equality, fuck all of that — it’s all “identity politics” that only the “elites” care about and they don’t matter anyway; only the “economic anxiety” of “real working-class Americans” matters (read: white males easily baited by racist and sexist dog whistles) and the Democrats have to get with the program and win them over in order to start their “progressive revolution”.

    ...

    A 76-year-old John Lewis, whose skull was fractured by state troopers in Selma while actually marching with Dr. King, found the time to join Cory Booker in testifying against Sessions, but a 74-year-old Bernie Sanders sat and watched on the sidelines only to later on tweet about a flawed amendment that he gladly took the credit for — even though he didn’t to the work — knowing that his toxic cult would take the bait and use it to unleash holy hell on Booker in an attempt to erase the bold and unprecedented action he took that very day. Just like the way his cult has been gleefully rubbing in everyone’s face since Election Night on how “Bernie would have easily beaten Trump” had he only been given the Dem nomination, conveniently ignoring that he didn’t do a GODDAMN thing to earn it, and saying nothing about how they cheered on Donald Trump for using the exact same talking points vs. Hillary Clinton as Sanders did (particularly the bullshit about her “rigging elections”), all while Bernie stayed on the sidelines and gave little support to Clinton, do very little to rally either his cult or his supporters to get behind her, and was all too happy to promote his book immediately after the election hoping to gather enough momentum to take over a reeling Democratic Party.

    ...

    I realize that the Far Left doesn’t entirely consist of Bernie Zealots, but the remainder of that wing for the most part are just as awful... These grandiose motherfuckers LOVE to do nothing but shit on Democrats who aren’t 100% perfect progressives when they’re in office — which is pretty much everybody — and love to go on and on about how “both sides are the same” and how “we’re fucked either way”. And when a right-wing extremist that would inflict pain and suffering to the most marginalized populations inevitably comes to power, suddenly they want to either complain about how fucked we are, revel in the prospect of the “revolution” that will finally be at hand, or try to wash their hands of their complicity and say “don’t blame me, I voted for (fringe minor party candidate)” and use it to advocate the “necessity” of a third party.

    ...

    Somehow, it was beneath them to vote for Hillary Clinton even when she was the ONLY VIABLE OPTION to prevent a Donald Trump presidency because of her emails, Goldman Sachs speeches, she’s a “war criminal” or whatever.

    ...

    This is the end result of a disgusting and unrepentant form of nihilism rooted in the belief that practically everyone is hopelessly corrupt and compromised, that there is no usefulness in trying to change or reform existing systems, leaves very little — if any — room for good people to make mistakes in judgement, ruthlessly purges people for being imperfect, and mandates that the current society must be completely burned down and destroyed by a massive revolt of the people to allow the ideologically pure to gain control and build a utopia for all to prosper. Hence the term nihilistic purity.

    ...

    I’m sick of seeing people who insist on being willfully ignorant of basic civics and how government works, stunningly myopic of the bigger picture or the greater good, and outright refuse to even consider coalition building, still being catered to like customers at a high end day spa because they’re the either loudest voices in the room or are adept with or active on social media — even if they’re using it to promote laughingly biased fake news. And I’m sick of seeing these nihilistic purists lecture everyone else on how to fight the power and then turn around to crucify someone who does just that because of a fucking technicality.

    ...

    But all the prescription drugs in the world will not stop Blacks, Latinx, Asians, Native Americans, and Muslims from being beaten and murdered simply for their race or religion. No prescription drug will prevent women from being beaten, assaulted, and raped. No drug will stop lesbians, gays, and transgendered folks from being assaulted and murdered for who they are. And no prescription drug will prevent the abuse and exploitation of immigrants. The safety and security of every American and the institutions that that guide them will be directly under the watch of the Attorney General. Crucifying Cory Booker over a separate and unrelated technicality as he stands up for the liberty of every American is great way to ensure that Donald Trump’s presidency will last for eight years.

  6. #21
    it's a long long climb Kari's Avatar
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    I was just sent that by a friend. I agree with a lot of it, and the Bernie Stans continue to be on my last goddamn nerve.

  7. #22
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    Dems stealing propaganda from the Left (again). I find this hilarious, though. It's not like PSL hasn't ever taken credit from other left organizations. A lot of organizations participate in recuperation.

  8. #23
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    I get angrier and angrier at Bernie by the day. I'm FURIOUS that he's STILL taking the "I'm not a Democrat" stance after fucking up the primary process... and arguably the general election. You can't both be "not a Democrat" and "running for President on the Democratic ticket." Fuck you, Bernie. I've had your back for decades. You were one of the good ones, one of the ones that fit my values the most, spoke to me in a way almost no one else did.

    And now there's this. Bernie, There Will Be No Revolution Without Reproductive Rights. But Sanders is throwing his weight behind a Nebraska candidate whose record on reproductive rights is as clear as the connection between abortion access and poverty.

    I’m frustrated with Bernie Sanders, and I’m frustrated with Bernie Sanders’ staunch enthusiasts.

    I understand that Sanders is wildly popular among a certain faction of the progressive left. And I understand why he is wildly popular. His message of economic justice resonates. Fighting for the little guy. Fighting for the middle class. Hell, that message resonates with me.

    The problem is that Sanders’ vision of economic justice is woefully incomplete. Bernie Sanders and many of his supporters seem perfectly content to categorize reproductive rights and abortion access as a social issue—a distraction from economic justice and reforming Wall Street, which they deem the so-called real issues.

    And that simply doesn’t work, because reproductive justice and economic justice are inexorably intertwined.

    ...

    Here’s the thing that really chaps my hide, though: I’d be willing to bet everything that I own that Sanders would exclude from his reformed Democratic Party any candidate who disagreed about challenging Wall Street or regulating banks. He would likely excoriate any Democratic candidate that he felt was “in bed with Wall Street,” a charge he repeatedly lobbed at Clinton during the primaries.

    But vote for a bill banning insurance coverage for abortion, making it even harder for women to access necessary and sometimes life-saving care?

    Meh. No big deal. We’ll still let you join the progressive revolution.

    ...

    The whole point is that Sanders was supposed to be better than establishment Democrats, different from them. But he’s not. Sanders is proving himself to be every bit as establishment as the Democrats he criticizes.

    That’s why I’m so vociferous in my criticism of Sanders. Those of us who work in reproductive rights advocacy are well aware of Democrats’ problems when it comes to ceding abortion rights in a compromise for something “more important.”
    Now, I don't believe that a progressive/dem/liberal HAS to be pro-choice 100% of the time. I mean, I would LOVE it, but I don't like litmus tests and I don't like the whole "you're with us or against us" that happens to us lefties. We scare away people by being too strident, even if we are right. I mean, choosing between an anti-choice Dem and any Republican is going to be an easy choice for me, but it doesn't mean that we can't primary that Dem. And we should. But we really have to keep our eye on the "lesser evil" ball right now. I don't like anti-choice Dems, but it doesn't mean they have no value on other important issues.

    So yeah, I understand why he supports the Mello guy, but I am still really pissed at Bernie for the hypocrisy. Screaming about Wall Street gets his base fired up so he does. Taking a similar stand on reproductive rights? Well, no, that's identity politics and we can't do that for some reason. It MATTERS that Mello has a gross track record and it would be more unifying for him to say so. "While I disagree with his record on reproductive rights, he's on the right track elsewhere and I want us to work together right now" would be a great thing to say, not dismissal of it as a non-issue. WOMEN ARE NOT A PERIPHERY DEMOGRAPHIC. We are more than 50% of the population and did you not see all the marches? It'd be easier to give him a pass on the Mello stuff if he wasn't being a waffling douche on supporting Ossof. Did Ossof not properly kiss the ring or something?

    And I know all politicians are hypocritical and inconsistent, but when he attempted to destroy Hillary for those very same traits, it's pissing me off to no end. He's not uniting the party. He's destroying it and not to make it better, but to flatter his own ego.

    I have more respect for Never-Trump Republicans than the STILL WHINING "Bernie would have won" "progressives."

  9. #24
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    Former VT governor and DNC chair Howard Dean is dragging Sanders right now... politely. He's like "Look, Bernie's great and he'd have made a great president and his ideas aren't wrong, but we can't ignore POC and women and LGBT for some economic strategy that we don't all agree with." So it looks like I'm not the only one who used to feel the Bern who is not any more 100%.

  10. #25
    it's a long long climb Kari's Avatar
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    I can't even talk about the Mello/Bernie thing without getting supernova angry, so I'll just say this: You can't demand NO COMPROMISE from people and get your supporters to call people with 90% progressive views with some wiggle room "neoliberals" and then use my fucking bodily autonomy as a bargaining chip/compromise point. A lot of people roundly trashed HRC voters for supporting incremental politics with Hillary's run and now those same people are being all BUT COMPROMISE. No, fuck you.

  11. #26
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    I read another piece, "Will We Abandon Women’s Rights in the Name of Progressive Politics?", which is more articulate than me at saying what bugs me.

    This circular formulation, in which reproductive-rights advocates are told that they must sacrifice their issues in order to make progress on those same issues, was repeated by Sanders in an NPR interview on Thursday, in which he explained that, “If we are going to protect a woman’s right to choose, at the end of the day we are going to need Democratic control over the House and Senate, and state governments all over this nation. And we have got to appreciate where people come from, and do our best to fight for the pro-choice agenda. But I think you just can’t exclude people who disagree with us on this one issue.”

    Women have heard this argument again and again, and we have remained the reliable base of a party that has elected and elevated to positions of greater power anti-choice Democrats including Harry Reid, Joe Biden, Tim Kaine, and Bob Casey. In fact, it’s hard not to feel that it’s because of the dedication of women, and particularly women of color, to the Democratic Party — where else are they going to go? — that party leaders feel freer to take them for granted and trade their fundamental rights in obsessive pursuit of the great white male. This is how Dems always imagine that they can make inroads in red states. It’s third-way centrist bullshit.

    ...

    This time, she says, “the organized resistance is women.” In fact, one recent poll showed that 86 percent of the people making daily calls to Senate and House offices are women, most of them middle aged. And after his better-than-expected showing in Tuesday’s primary, Ossoff said, “This is a story of women in this community,” noting the “thousands of volunteers and organizers … led by women who have been pounding the pavement and knocking on doors for months.”

    In the midst of one of the most activated, energized, ground-up movements in modern Democratic political history — where the energy is coming from women who remain underrepresented in state and federal legislatures — the Unity Tour, with its two men making pronouncements about what the party should do next, felt exceedingly out of touch. And the dynamic — the women doing the labor of organizing and protesting and campaigning, knocking on doors and making calls and sending postcards, while guys speak from the microphones about the need to compromise on their rights — is depressingly retro.

    “Open your eyes to where the resistance is really coming from,” Hogue urged on Thursday. “There are literally millions of women who have been pouring calls into Senate offices, House offices, going to town halls, filing to run for office; we are literally three months out from the largest protest in U.S. history that was overwhelmingly women, in the name of women; that’s where the resistance is. This is the Democratic party base. So why is the place to start negotiating the place that pulls the heart out of the resistance?”
    Again, litmus tests are bad. Bernie would fail for his gun record. I hate some of the things Obama did. There is compromise that needs to happen but this doesn't feel like lesser-of-two-evils compromise, but throwing out identity politics in search of the "great white male", highlighted above.

  12. #27
    fluid, affectionate, chaste, mature Mackerel's Avatar
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    I screamed about this loudly on facebook, but in the interest of fairness I will say he endorsed Ossoff a day later, which appeases what conceptually bothered me most about this whole dust-up, which was the implication that Ossoff was somehow odiously, unbearably unpalatable to him in a way that Mello was not. On principle, I'm always been a pragmatist and openly against primarying Dems in red states like Joe Manchin (bc a Republican would replace him, anyway, so why not just leave him alone?) but if you're picking and choosing what to get precious and overly picky about, you have to explain that anti-WS is more important to you than choice, or be fair. So I'm glad he chose to be fair.

  13. #28
    Senior Member uncanny hats's Avatar
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    File this under weird and the Dems really to get their shit together: 1. The Nation is reporting Bernie/abortion dust-up is basically fake news and that no one checked with Omaha about basically anything. 2. It's not fake news that Nancy Pelosi rebuked Tom Perez and she believes that "Of course Democrats can be pro-life." And then, 3. the Washington Post reporting that Schumer agrees with Pelosi.

    Which means there's a lot to sort out I guess but on the other hand, what the hell is going on, though?

  14. #29
    Loves ponies. Hates phonies. Regina Phalange's Avatar
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    This thread is a great breakdown of all the times Democrats have tried to enact single payer healthcare



    "More pure than her" attitude helped us end up with Trump. I'm fairly sure Hillary is as liberal as Bernie, but understands politics and compromise, so her record is not as ideologically perfect. As with most humans, except Bernie, apparently.

    Maybe Dems don't work hard enough or wisely, maybe we've blown some chances for change, but it doesn't mean collectively that non-Bernie bros are Republicans in disguise.


  15. #30
    Let them eat cheese flan Nancy's Avatar
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    I still kinda blame Bill Clinton for adopting the "politics of personal responsibility" trope from Reagan and going forward with it when he should have pushed back. "Personal responsibility" is conservative code that really means "you don't deserve any help from the gov't unless you can prove to us that you aren't responsible for your current financial situation." When Bill Clinton signed The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 into law, all it did was lead to more compromise on the left, until it seemed like the Dems were no different than the Repubs.

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